TODAY!!!! RIGHT NOW!!! I’m LITERALLY IN Bethesda, Maryland, for Small Press Expo 2025! See me at table F2 today and Sunday!
you can come be mad at me in person about today’s strip
and don’t forget, plush dina’s still up for preorder, through this weekend
and tomorrow’s strip is already up on patreon! even more stuff is happening, if you can believe
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So what did you expect would happen after saying all that bullsheep, exactly ?
They aren’t thinking.
They are aggressively not thinking.
They haven’t been thinking since the demonstration.
they haven’t been thinking since freshman move in
I mean literally this is what they were worried about the whole time: hurting a person that they both care about. But lying to her would be worse.
They didn’t have to lie to stop talking sooner.
Sometimes, the most honest thing a person can do is shut the fuck up.
They definitely put salt in the wound in yesterday’s strip though
Yes, Becky. Joyce never loved you that way. Specifically, THAT way.
She told you it was because she wasn’t into girls. This was not a lie. It wasn’t actually correct, but it was at the time something she believed to be correct. Lying implies intent.
However, she was not wrong about not being into you in THAT way – because she views you more as her SISTER than a potential mate. This is not a bad thing, Becky.
Also you have a girlfriend who is crazy for you and you’re crazy for her. Sulking about Joyce being into another girl at this point just looks like rather petty jealousy. Go kiss Dinah and tell her you love her, silly, and just be happy for Joyce for finding the girl of HER dreams.
Joyce actually didn’t tell Becky that she wasn’t into girls. She just told her that she didn’t feel the same way about her. The idea that it was because Joyce was straight was all Becky’s assumption.
She is, however, allowed to be upset that the girl she’s been in love with for years has rejected her for some bony poindexter she met six months ago. It’s a perfectly valid way to feel.
People who wanted consequences: There ya go.
Noooo, not theeeeese consequences!
Or rather not JUST these consequences
Time is an unbroken hexagon, and there’s no way to unwind what’s been wound. We’re just gonna have to expect something else coming soon.
I’ve stopped expecting satisfying resolutions to this arc tbh.
Even this has just ended with….a depressed becky.
Lol you think this has ended?
No one thinks this has ended, don’t be obtuse. People are allowed to think that what has happened thus far is unsatisfying in one way or another, and saying “well something COULD happen later” is not a very compelling argument against that – because, well, something could not happen as well. A potential story cannot satisfy me.
And on top of that, it’s very much expecting us to have a Charlie Brown kicking the football sort of response.
“I know you have expressed that you weren’t satisfied by the half-dozen encounters in this storyline so far. Why won’t you expect it to get better any second now even though it’s been basically the same kind of unsatisfying every time so far?”
Jay –literally– said “Even this has just ended with….a depressed becky.”
I know because I copied and pasted it to make sure I got it right, and could use “literally” correctly.
And if you think seeing Becky like this isn’t going to break Joyce’s heart, I’m not sure what to tell you.
When people talk about how what happened in a single strip not being a satisfying resolution or similar statements it sure sounds like they think it’s ended. That’s where the resolution goes. At the end. None of whats happened has been a satisfying resolution because the resolution hasn’t been reached.
A lot of the complaints I’m seeing of late only make sense if you assume the people making them think the storyline is resolved in regards to the characters in the specific strip they’re replying to and nothing is forthcoming regarding those characters reactions to the situation.
This hasn’t ended. We still have this whole poly thing with Joe to resolve. Plus emotional fallout from… everything.
Nah, not like this is some kinda long-form storytelling where information and bits of the plot are revealed over time and in-universe days can take months.
Some of this may be that the strip’s drawn-out decompressed approach that works very well for both light humor and intense action, tends to be less impactful on stuff that would be slow burn drama even in a strip that tended to match real time progression.
Maybe this would all work better for some folks in a binge-read of six months worth of archives.
I thought time was supposed to be a CUBE with FOUR SIMULTANEOUS CORNER DAYS, unlike what THEY want you to believe.
That’s because THEY are educated stupid.
Well, I have it on good authority that time can be considered a helix of semi-precious stones.
Does that mean we’re currently in the dot on the i in Jeremy Bearimy?
Hexagons are the bestagons.
wait, why a hexagon?
is there a reference I’m missing?
“Help her Jinu!”
**Jinu helps her**
“No Jinu! Not like THAT!”
Ok, but now the consequences have a bigger longer sword, so it’s not all bad.
@cbwroses
Thanks for being the only person to acknowledge my cheeky KDH reference.
bUt JoE hAsN’t ScReAmEd At JoYcE sO iT dOeSn’T cOuNt
That meme doesn’t work when you’re referencing something nobody ever said.
Nobody wanted Joe to scream at Joyce, they wanted one of the boyfriends to actually give a fuck that they were cheated on.
Especially the boyfriend with *cheating related trauma*
Idk I think a character having to tackle with the fact he was cheated on when his biggest fear is cheating on someone would’ve been a cooler character arc than “woo let’s do poly” but it’s not my story.
Amen amen, preach!
Eh, there are a lot of hints from Joe that he kinda already picked up on or assumed Dorothy and Joyce had feelings for each other. I think if it had been anyone else he would’ve been hurt, but I think he was almost expecting this lol
Picking up that your partner might have feelings for someone else before you catch them cheating doesn’t usually lead to less concern.
we have confirmation frorm joe he not only knew, he caused the reckoning, we also have his words stating he is ok with this. he may not be happy with how joyce ended thier conversation, but he absolutely did not see what joyce and dotty did as hurtful to him.
I didn’t say otherwise, I was just saying that suspecting feelings beforehand doesn’t usually make cheating easier to take.
that is the part i am taking issue with, he didnt suspect there were feelings, he knew. and i think that is an important distinction to make if we are talking about the cheating being easier to take or not. he basically tell joyce he expected he to end up kissing (and doing more) with dotty. which to me says the cheating aspect is not what he was worried about or pained by
I hope Joe confides in Rachel or Sarah that he’s really not as okay with this turn of events as he wants Joyce to think he is.
Yeah, everyone assumes Joe is okay, just because he said he was, and because he said something resembling a Joe comment about being in a three-way. But Joe has always had depth we didn’t see immediately.
I’m reminded of the “Roomies!” arc where he found out his parents were getting divorced. He seemed to be fine, and enjoying all the gifts from his parents, until we saw the crack in his shell.
This version of Joe is more three-dimensional than that Joe. And if you really look at the last two panels of the last comic where we saw Joe, he’s NOT okay: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-16/01-not-so-smooth-criminals/everyones/
he is not okay with how the conversation ended, but he is absolutely ok with sharing joyce if she is ok with sharing herself with him. he is worried that joyce wont be able to share herself and thus he wont get to be with joyce in a romantic manner. is my reading of the whole situation. you don’t tell some one that their happyness is what makes you happy while proding her bestfriend to confess to her their romantic feelings for them if you are not prepared to possibly be on the losing side of the events. he is hurting but no where near as badly as some seem to hope.
Sure you do tell someone that, if you’re desperate to salvage something from the first time you opened up and tried something new, relationship-wise.
All you have to do is change your perspective a quarter-turn and you end up in a MUCH worse place than you’ve sketched out: “I am DEFINITELY going to lose, unless I risk it all on this throw of the dice towards poly, in which case I MIGHT only PARTIALLY lose.”
except he methodically set up dorothy to confront her feelings and confess to joyce, this tells me that i do not need to take a quarter turn in my veiw point, which is based on the whole of the events and not single panels or individual strips. i get it could be seen that way, especially if he hadnt been the one to go to dorothy and force her to confront her feelings for joyce. if he had talked to joyce about dorothy and joyce wanting to be more than friends then your take becaomes more likely, but he didnt. he went to dorothy, with whom he has complicated history with, to whom he knows he could lose joyce to, and starts the snowball rolling down the hill. those are not the actions of someone desparatlely cling ing onto what they have.
Yeah, he methodically set it up because he knew as soon as they realized it he had a decent chance of losing his relationship, so it was in his interest to force the issue.
That doesn’t mean he WANTED it or is HAPPY about it, just that he’s not blind to the people around him.
@Big Z The thing is, due to having eyes and a brain Joe knew what was going on before getting in a relationship with Joyce. If he wasn’t okay with his preposed solution then the other solution was to not start the relationship in the first place.
For me it’s not an either/or, it’s a both/and. Yes he legitimate encouraged Dorothy to be honest about for her feelings for Joyce, as well as telling Joyce he wanted her to have what would make her happy *and* is not fully comfortable with this and his desperately grasping to hold on to any fragment of their relationship out of low self esteem.
As someone in a poly relationship, I definitely do NOT want Joe to confide that he is not OK with this.
What is wrong with a poly relationship?
My question is it going to be a triangle or an ‘L’.
Warm regards, Rick.
Pretty sure they give pretty large fucks and this storyline isn’t over.
that’s what I’ve been saying the entire time
Looking at the chapter lengths for the other story arcs, I’m estimating that we’re only about halfway through this one. So, there’s plenty of time for things to go MORE sideways than they have already.
I hope it’s more looking at the fallout with Walky and Joe and how they react to what happened with Joyce and Dorothy… But given other things that have been happening with Becky in the leadup to this story, I rather suspect that we’re going to end up with a far darker storyline…
I feel like it should be relevant to the discussion that *Joyce and Dorothy have not had sex* (and the only one of the four that counts doing laundry is Joyce), so there was no actual “cheating”. They realized they had feelings for each other, kissed, and then came clean about it to their respective boyfriends *the next day*.
Cheating doesn’t require sex in the same way that being a couple doesn’t require sex.
Most people would consider repeatedly making out and spending all night spooning to be cheating
I wouldn’t consider it “cheating” esp in the given circumstances!
Joyce did something she was reasonably certain would hurt Joe and then instead of telling him she gave him a blowjob and put off the conversation for the next day. Whatever label you want to put on it, that is an atrocious way to treat a partner. Hell, it’s an atrocious way to treat *anyone*.
Joyce truly is a monster for *checks notes* giving her boyfriend a blowjob
You guys just LOVE to misrepresent the problems, don’t you?
Do I have to break out the crayons to explain how “Giving your boyfriend a sexual favor to assuage your guilt over cheating on them, all without telling them you cheated on them” is a bad thing to do?
joyce was about to tell joe, he presented her with an incredibly thoughtful gift, and her teenage brain went pop and she got lost in her feelings towards joe. she did not “give him a sexual favour to assuage her guilt over cheating on him”(i know i paraphrased abit) she gave him a blowjob as thanks for an incredibly thoughtful gift. just becasue from the outside it can be seen as such, doesnt make it the case. if he didnt have the gift in his hands there she has the talk bout kissing dotty with him then and there
Ember: Go back to that comic and look at Joyce’s face after she gets the blanket. You tell me now, with a straight face, that isn’t the face of somebody wracked with guilt.
Hoever, Joyce and Dorothy do: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-15/04-the-only-exception/clocked-2/
And Joe outright said “you got caught cheating”: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-16/01-not-so-smooth-criminals/dateboth/
I’m not saying I agree with them, but what matters is what those involved think, not we unconnected commenters.
Joyce, Joe and dotty all think it does tho your own (wrong) definitely doesn’t even matter here
That’s a really stupid definition of cheating to have
unfortunatley there were those who absolutely called for joe to yell scream and throw things, fortunately many of those comments got nuked for going to far.
Yeah, I’m sure there were, but now it’s being used against anyone who wanted consequences that were tied to the cheating part of what happened.
redarding the consequence of cheating, i have explained why i disagree (yet again) in a post below.
but i would disagree, those who are calling back to the extreme paladins who called for the boys to be rage monsters are not using it to paint all paladins with the same brush, most have just been making jokes about them.
I mean it’s been pretty heavily implied by alot of people
I would’ve liked those consequences to be genuinely related to their current romantic relationships but this is a good backup
Nuh UH! She has to get yelled at by a duuuuuuuude!
duuuuuuuude!
-read, Either of their boyfriends.
I wouldn’t really like it if Sayid or Ken or Golasso started yelling at them.
Glasso yelling at them would be hilarious you’re lying.
Only if it was completely unrelated. Or really petty.
“I was promised a front page spot and your kiss pushed me to page 2. Your pizzas will now and forever cost 50cents more!!”
“I HAVE BEEN TO LESBOS IN THE BEFORE TIMES! THEY WOULD NOT PROFANE A PROTEST WITH FORNICATIONS! THEY WOULD WAIT FOR THE FORNICATION FESTIVAL! GLASSO SHUNS YOU!”
Plot twist:galasso actually takes any kind of romantic unfaithfulness deadly seriously, and gets wierdly offended on Joe and walkys behalf despite barely knowing either of them
Their pizzas are now 50 cents cheaper.
Can it be any dude? Can Danny yell at them? Not really for any of the dating stuff but more for stealing all the newspaper which probably falls under generalized mayhem.
Danny: Dorothy, I EXPLICITLY told you to NOT cheat on your boyfriend. The Bi-counsel will be hearing about this.
Council is the noun, unless you’re talking about the people who counsel either side of a legal trial
Ah. Principle/Principal rules.
Honestly I love this development. I really relate to the feeling so this is good drama.
This doesn’t count, this is a consequence of Joyce and Dorothy being gay! I want consequences for Joyce and Dorothy being cheaters and also a little bit for acting like goons at a protest! Being gay is not a thing that should have negative consequences! Acting like a goon is a thing that should have negative consequences! It’s super simple!
Honestly it’s much more the protest thing that upsets me about their behavior than anything else, but I can’t go all in on wanting consequences for that because frankly Dorothy was borderline suicidal by that point.
I agree, anyone who kisses at a protest should be punished!
On the contrary, more people should kiss at protests. There should never be a time at a protest when people are not kissing!
Now I’m picturing a succession of people making out, taking it basically in shifts, and when somebody needs to take a break, something else tags in for them, like “Yo, I got you. Get some water, champ.”
This.
Yeah, this. In relation to Becky, Joyce and Dorothy have done nothing wrong by kissing and now dating. Becky has reasons to have an emotional reaction, but Becky has no direct involvement with their romantic lives. Becky has no right to dole out judgement or negative backlash because Joyce and Dorothy are a couple. That doesn’t mean Becky won’t have a reaction, but being angry at them for entering a relationship is not justified, so negative consequences from her–yelling, getting angry, lecturing them– because they are together comes with mountains of baggage. And as far as this shows, Becky isn’t mad that they cheated. She’s distraught because they are together, period.
Joe or Walky have a right to be mad at Joyce and Dorothy for their decisions. Because Joe and Walky were directly involved as their [former, except Joe maybe] romantic partners. They are justified in being angry or judgmental or disappointed in Joyce and Dorothy’s actions, and Joe definitely has a right to call Joyce out on leaving him dangling. Which, no, is not the same as saying “Joe should scream at Joyce” or “Walky should curse Dorothy to hell” or whatever hyperbolic terrible reaction some people are equating with “any negative reaction from Joe and Walky whatsoever.”
Like, to draw two comparisons: we didn’t even get to see Dorothy breakup with Walky, and when Joyce did it was treated as a joke at Walky’s expense. Despite the fact that Walky is more immediately involved in those development. Walky got 2 strips, one of mostly text messages, to deal with this [yes, so far]. Becky, who is not even involved in the actual questionable part of this–the cheating– has gotten mentioned as the bigger concern more than once, and has gotten 3 strips to be emotional about the fact that Dorothy and Joyce are just together, kissing, in Joyce’s room.
That is what bugs me. That the negative pushback is coming from Becky, for toxic reasons, and not from the people actually embroiled in the relationships for any justifiable reason.
Take all of my flowers! Take them!
All of that: Plus Joyce acting like Dorothy was always endgame and Joe was someone she convinced herself was The One (because she was totally hetero).
As I said earlier: Strong “Willow saying she only thought she loved Oz” energy.
Bi erasure trope 🙁
I’m not too bothered by that because I’m pretty sure that’s a Joyce character trait and not the authorial voice.
I’m also pretty sure that Joyce is strongly tempted by Joe’s poly offer and that’s going to be a big plot point coming up. Basically, I really doubt the overall arc is going to have ‘Strong “Willow saying she only thought she loved Oz” energy.’, even if this moment does.
I second the “That’s a Joyce character trait” bit. Somebody said it a few weeks ago, that Joyce still has this fairy tale view of love in that “Anything is OK as long as it’s for ‘True Love’.” which I was kinda hoping was gonna bite her in the ass.
But aside from Sarah, not one person has tried to make this point to her, that being “In Love” doesn’t give you complete freedom to be uncaring to everybody else involved. That’s called being a sociopath, or just plain selfish if you’re being charitable.
Actually I think Joe sort of did, when he told her not to break up Jacob and Raidah.
Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony.
Something I heard about 20 years ago:
“If committing gluttony makes you a glutton, then God is an iron.”
You have articulated all of this incredibly well. I am just so frustrated with how the emotions of boy characters keep being dismissed or treated as jokes, especially in comparison to the amount of narrative weight given to the emotions of girl characters. But also like, the main male character in this comic who is habitually emotional, Danny, has always been the butt of jokes specifically for that, so I don’t know why I ever hoped for anything better for Joe or Walky. Ukuleles all around, I guess!
How is it surprising that the person who is the most hurt is the one who was in love the longest? And yeah, Becky was not cheated on, but it makes sense it feels a bit the same. They had an implicit agreement: they were all friends, and only friends. Then she brutally learned that agreement, which was mostly important to her well being, was broken.
But since it is not actually cheating, and Becky knows that, it must be her fault, somehow.
If they had better control of themselves, they could have clarified everything to Becky in a more controlled manner, without her having to think it’s her fault (maybe). That’s how it’s still a consequence of their cheating, because now, it’s out of their hands. And since they care a lot about her (especially Joyce, who I think is by far the most in the wrong), they will feel very bad about it.
And then they will have to discuss the situation with Joe…
This isn’t really a question of “who got hurt the most.” I can believe Becky is as emotionally hurt as Walky or Joe, albeit in a different way.
The difference is, Becky being hurt that Joyce is bi, or that Joyce is with Dorothy, or that Joyce didn’t choose her, is all understandable as a purely emotional reaction, but is NOT a justifiable reason for her to get angry with them and give them the negative “hey, you guys have been kind of shitty” reaction some people want. Becky is hurt, and that sucks. But unless Becky says “You guys were kind of shitty for cheating on your boyfriends,” which doesn’t appear to be on her radar, any negative lecture from Becky about Dorothy/Joyce being together is Becky projecting her own emotional issues and possessiveness of Joyce onto two other queer people who are in no way in the wrong for being queer or getting together.
Joe and Walky, however, DO have justifiable reasons to be mad and give Joyce/Dorothy some “hey, you guys have done a kind of shitty thing” pushback with very valid reasons: Joyce and Dorothy cheated on them. Joe ultimately wanted Joyce to have the choice, but Joyce did not know that when she chose to kiss Dorothy anyway. Joe has a valid reason to say that Joyce needs to give him an answer about where he stands. Walky has a reason to be mad at Dorothy for cheating on him.
Becky might feel cheated on, in a way, and be hurt. It’s understandable that she is surprised and hurt. But she was not cheated on. She had no claim to Joyce. Friendship is not a binding contract to not fall in love and express those feelings with another consenting person.
I’m sorry I’m not reading the rest, but I don’t want to get distracted.
About your last paragraph, I want to point out that it is a very gray area of love and friendship, and that it doesn’t seem less binding to me than their love relationships.
That’s why they all (not just Becky) act and react like that. They know that’s a betrayal in their relationship with Becky.
And yeah, that’s unfair, and Becky knows it, thus her taking the blame. But they should have talked it through before she could be hurt that much, just like they should have with their boyfriends.
And I suppose I don’t know if she is more hurt than the others, even if I really think so (really depend on if Walky’s nuggets are purely comedic, or secretely suicidal); but it’s undeniable to me that she is very, very hurt.
And maybe to the point of being a danger to herself, which could make it worse, since Joe is not the only one with family history, and we know where feeling of guilt led Ruth.
I feel like captain obvious saying that, since Becky saying she “need to not be anywhere” feels very much like her trying to not say “not alive”, except maybe with an added “not dead” since it feels no paradise can help her…
And I know nothing about actual poly relationship(s), but to me, it looks like an opportunity for Joyce to learn about not just being overfocused on one lover she currently thinks about.
It makes narrative sense to me if she has to put her relationships on hold (or maybe just Dorothy, after a fight about Joe), do whatever she can to mitigate her mess, then try again with better understanding.
It’s my best attempt to counter the people who think it will necessarily suck now that the Joe/Joyce plot has taken an unplanned sharp turn.
Yes, it’s absolutely fair that Joyce has to put her new relationship on hold because Becky had a prior claim on her. Very fair.
Not what i meant, but I suppose that’s on me.
It was really about Joyce only thinking about Dorothy during the protest.
It’s a consequence of the cheating in the sense that is a thing that happened after the cheating and that they were cheating when the photo was taken, but the Becky part of this arc could have played out exactly the same way if Joe and Walky weren’t in the picture at all.
They could still have been realizing their attraction, gone to the protest looking for Jocelyne and made same dramatic declaration and kiss. They’d still be concerned about telling Becky and she’d still have the same emotions in response.
Well yeah, maybe, But I doubt so. If they talked to their boyfriends, I don’t find it very likely they wouldn’t have to Becky.
In any case, cheating is a betrayal of trust, and I insist that in the same way there should be no debate if they think they cheated, they also betrayed Becky if they think they did.
I say that because I think cheating would not be wrong if no one was hurt and the persone doing it knew it.
It’s not wrong because it’s a rule of god or something. It is a rule because it hurt people and needlessly hurting people is wrong.
I simply don’t see why it woudn’t count. They knew she would be needlessly hurt, (altough I think it wasn’t on their mind then, which doesn’t mean they didn’t care) but did it anyway.
HEAR HEAR!
I was thinking more of the boys not being in the picture at all, for whatever reason, not that they figured it out and then talked to the boys first. The hurt to Becky is from finding out Joyce is into women, just not her. It’s not particularly from how she found out – other than a bit from Joyce’s “from the first time I saw her” nonsense.
And I’m deeply not okay with the idea of coming out as bi as betrayal. That’s not cool.
Yeah, I’m going overboard saying it like that. I’m really sorry.
Maybe I didn’t have to say that much things, since all I really meant was “Joyce should have come out sooner and directly, because even doing it poorly would have been better than that” and “What do you mean it’s not the right consequences for you? It is all ultimately the consequence of lack of communication”
And it wouldn’t needlessly hurt Joyce & Dorothy to stay in the closet and never pursue their feelings so that Becky doesn’t get hurt?
I should have clarified at some point that by betrayal, I did’t mean it was coming out, but not coming out to Becky before going public. I just think Becky wanted to be told, at least.
And also, sometime betrayal is the only way. If it was really more than that, then yeah, they had no other choice that to betray.
It’s also the problem with the fact this boundary was clearly there, the two of them felt it, but no one tried to determine what it actually was. Becky herself probably didn’t want to think about it that much.
thank you
Gotta disagree.
“They had an implicit agreement” called homophobia. Het normativity.
Literally EVERY queer faces this nonsense of an “we had an implicit agreement” ( you wouldn’t fuck people of the same sex. Now you’ve broken your grandmother heart. Nonsense)
“The agreement” is ‘stay in the closet’ .
Becky was absolutely NOT betrayed. This is a toxic mix of homophobia and friendzone entitlement culture. Unfortunately the narrative implicitly endorses those things.
But I know Willis does not. This storyline is not intended for babies who take things literally, or expect gays to stay in the closet. Or toxicly guilt people for coming out. Or believe in sexual entitlement.
Yet I friggin dread this story because I see their are giant babies reading it. Large section of the audience.
Becky is gay. She doesn’t get to guilt or shame anyone in the closet. She knows this. It’s on the page. She just said Dorothy did nothing wrong.
‘Somebody feelings got hurt so it’s a betrayal ‘ is super toxic nonsense irl.
Even worse when aimed at someone coming out ( because that is literally EVERY traumatic coming out story. Every one )
You actually DO get to fall in love with someone, even if a 3rd party disapproves. Because that’s toxicity. That’s entitlement. That’s right to control people. Becky was kidnapped over this idea. Then so was Joyce and Dorothy. That’s what the villains in the strip believe.
This is Ethan’s mother. And Sometimes Walky mother . And Ruth’s grandfather.
Ok, put like that, I can understand your reaction. I really meant (and said) that it was an unfair (so yeah, toxic) agreement. I’m not talking much about justice. I wanted Joyce and Dorothy to be together.
It’s really about the fact that Becky being hurt is not much different from the boys being hurt. Being her best friends, they should have tried to mitigate the damage, to make sure it wouldn’t go as bad as I fear it is going.
Had Becky been very unreasonable or dangerous, I fully agree this thing about betrayal would be pure bullshit. You owe nothing of the sort to people who will not accept you anyway. I said all that because we know Becky is not like that. And had she still refused to see reason, of course it wouldn’t have stopped them. It’s really “she deserved the effort of trying to be reasoned with”.
Also, sorry if it sounds like I’m doubling down, or explaining something you just said or implied.
@Adam Black – God, yes, absolutely!
There absolutely was an agreement, explicit or implicit, about that.
Dammit, was NOT an agreement.
my now obligatory comment that, due to the timelime of events this is still is a consequence of their act of cheating, yes becky finding out they are kissing now in this manner would have hurt her whether or not they were front page of the paper kissing at a protest. but they did commit an act that can be said to be cheating in a public place at a protest and becky now being upset at them is a direct consequence of their actions. removing the context of the event does not make the consequences not the result of those contexts. it is not a direct 1:1 transaction of consequences but events never are. one way to put it is “collateral damage is still damage, just cause you did not mean for there to be any, you don’t get to control what happens”
It’s still not a consequence of their cheating. Had they broken up with their boyfriends beforehand, the entire protest, kiss, and newspaper could have played out identically, and Becky would be just as hurt by it. This didn’t happen because they cheated. It happened because they got together in a ridiculously dramatic way.
It’s only a “consequence of them cheating” in the same sense that it’s a consequence of them being born.
this is no different than the argument world leader use to claim their actions and words don’t cause the harms they do. what you describe is what would have happened in that situation. doesnt change that the sequence of events that have happenned have occurred in this manner and to the participants in this specific strip this situation is a consequence of them having cheated.
please review your use of this arguement in a historical context, as it is used by very bad people to justify very bad events throughout history. a factual example of this is the catholic justification for burnign witches. “the people would have burned the witches anyway cause they know they are evil, us going around a calling for all witches to be burned doesnt mean the witch burnings were our fault cause they would have been burned anyway.
i get when the evaluating events in ones personal life it can help us cope with the consequences of our actions, and explain someof the random shit that can befall us, but when you are reflecting and saying this would hav e happened to me anyway if i had done this differently can feel good, and help us to move on, but it also can prevent us from learning from our actions as it doesnt change the events that actually happened. i have said this most of the times i make this arguement i do not disagree that as a consequence fro cheating it doesnt feel appropriate, but their actions have lead to this and by DEFINITION this is a consequence of those actions. just cause it could have happened with out them being bongos at a protest on the front page of the paper, doesnt change the definition of consequences. i really do get that people want to see other consequences but to say it isnt a consequence of their actions is to deny the legal definition of the word.
another example is getting caught stealing a $5k tv leads to the same consequences as being caught stealing $5k of jewelry.
What the absolute fuck is this argument?
I cannot see any connection between this and what TerribleTransit was saying or what other’s have argued along the same lines. Including me.
Unless you’re just leaning into what they said ‘It’s only a “consequence of them cheating” in the same sense that it’s a consequence of them being born.’ Treating that as the only meaning consequences worth considering.
In which case we could also argue that her father being dead is a consequence of Becky being a lesbian, instead of treating him as morally responsible for his own choices.
sorry i am stickler on dictionary definitions, and i don’t like people ignoring the dictionaries definition for the furthering of thier arguement. this “when you change/remove an event and get the same result means that the result is not a consequence of the event removed” only applies when discussing hypotheticals. and does not change the definition. you can say this isn’t JUST a consequnece of the act of cheating, you can argue the hypothetical of what would occur if they did not kiss at the protest, but it is a matter of record that the kiss at the protest has lead to this consequence.
here is the false equivilancy fallacy defined, which is what is happening when you remove factual context to make your arguement.
Definition of False Equivalence Fallacy
A false equivalence fallacy occurs when two subjects are incorrectly compared as if they are equal, despite significant differences. This logical error often arises from flawed reasoning or oversimplification.
Characteristics
Key Features
Flawed Comparison: Assumes that a shared trait indicates equivalence.
Oversimplification: Ignores important differences in context, magnitude, or quality.
Cognitive Bias: Can be unintentional or used deliberately to mislead.
Common Patterns
Example of Oversimplification: Comparing the impact of a major oil spill to a minor oil leak, suggesting they are equally harmful.
Misleading Equivalence: Treating two different criminal acts as equivalent, such as comparing a serious crime to a minor infraction.
Examples
Scenario False Equivalence Example
Environmental Impact “An oil spill is no worse than a neighbor spilling oil.”
Criminal Behavior “A serial embezzler is the same as someone who littered.”
Political Flaws Comparing the flaws of two politicians without context.
Consequences
False equivalence can distort public perception, especially in media and politics. It may lead to a misunderstanding of issues by presenting them as equally valid, despite evidence to the contrary. This can undermine informed decision-making and critical thinking.
Important thing to note here is that no one is trying to use whatever weird hyper-specific legal-technical definition of the word “consequences” that you’re focused on.
Yes, the events currently occurring with Becky in the comic are a “consequence” of them cheating in that them cheating was part of a chain of actions that resulted in this happening. No one is disputing that.
But this is not happening because they cheated. Whether or not there was cheating involved is completely immaterial to how Becky is reacting. She’s not having this breakdown due to the fact that cheating was involved in it. I hope you can see how the distinction matters in context?
In short: this conversation is a consequence of them kissing in public. That kiss was cheating. There’s no transitive property there. Cheating did not cause this to happen.
Yeah, whatever.
Maybe next time you want to tell people they’re wrong about how they read a story, ignore their explanations of what they and talk about how they’re doing the same thing as those that burned witches, maybe lead with just being a “stickler on dictionary definitions” so we can all ignore you.
terrible, that is exactly what some have done though, as thejeff hs done on the very next comment, which is to completely dismiss the point that by not using qualifiers and specifics we are left with the dictionaries definition on the term. not even going into how the false equivilence fallacy was used to murder women as witches through out history, or justify/hand wave away resposibiltiy for atrocities throughout history, and i guess from here on out i will try to ignore those who want to make their arguments using this method rather than educate regarding the problems and issues with relying such, i just hope other have read my posts and will realize to do the same.
i do not understand why anyone would want to use the false equivilency fallacy to make their argument, as i do not want to be associated with the techniques of oppression
Embe, if you’re concerned about false equivalence so much, maybe take a good hard look and check who started their reply in a discussion about two goddamn cartoon characters kissing with “this is no different than the argument world leader use to claim their actions and words don’t cause the harms they do.”
This is the most ridiculous argument I’ve read this week.
you havent been in the comments much as i’ve made this argue ment since the first time i responded to the people saying what is happening is not a consequence of cheating, hence my original comment on this threas with “my now obligatory comment on this”
Why “should” there be consequences? Because God? Because learning? Because Willis is supposed to be a God or a teacher? Because fiction should be educational? Whereinheck does this “should” come from? Life is messy. Sometimes there are bad things, sometimes good, they happen to bad people and good. “Rain falls upon the just and on the Unjust fella, but more upon the just because… the unjust has the just’s umbrella..”
Because I said so.
Mostly because this is a “dumbing of age” story. It’s kind of the genre. Kids do dumb stuff, deal with the consequences and grow as characters because of it.
It’s not like we haven’t seen this very comic dole out retribution for characters doing bad things before.
Because fiction should satisfy our sense of rightness when real life fails to.
Mission accomplished! Well, except for Becky’s meltdown. That sucks.
Because REAL LIFE has consequences.
When you do selfish things, people you care about are hurt. Relationships are damaged, sometimes irreparably.
Because a lot of people have been cheated on, know someone who was cheated on or in some case, been a cheater. And usually people…get upset at you for betraying their trust. Like if Joyce started kicking people in the chest randomly, the consequence would be that people don’t like being around her. The reason why I’d want that consequence is because kicking people in the chest is not a nice thing to do.
Cheating on someone is not a nice thing to do.
“Joyce started kicking people in the chest randomly”
Um. Didn’t that happen?
‘but it doesn’t hurt because you are a guy’
Or if it only happens in a LAWsome comic.
(actually that’s what happens in all the LAWsome comics.)
The same reason we used to burn witches and jail people for being gay. Morality must be enforced or the world will go to hell.
Or maybe there’s actual a wide depth between “I wish this character was a bit more openly upset at being cheated on” and “We should murder people.”
impossible. Only the worst faith read possible.
This doesn’t feel like it’s only a response to a handful of really bad deleted comments.
Because it’s a god damn drama comic and actions cause things to happen- that’s called a consequence. Actions tend to have big consequences in drama. If nothing dramatic happens, then what’s the point????? Go read a fluffy slice of life if you don’t want drama and consequence
i’m genuinely starting to think people are operating off wildly different definitions of that word because its the ONLY way this shit makes sense to me
Huzzah!
Not enough! Joyce can still kiss this away and probably will in a few minutes! We need to go harder! Like Becky goes Toedaughter and kidnaps herself hard!
*Blazing Saddles intensifies*
I have never thought of this before, but a blazing saddle would be uncomfortable for anyone without asbestos jodhpurs.
Not fun for the horse, either.
Re: Becky, she almost certainly carries a torch for Joyce, and those gorram things are hard to put out. Can smoulder for decades. She could use some Dina time.
No, these are stupid consequences over a stupid thing, which is that these two spent the entire comic run bending over backwards to accommodate Becky.
There are still no consequences for the actual bad thing they did, which was cheating.
These are barely consequences. If there is a loser in all this circus is Dina. She has been basically flawless. Loving, understanding, available. And yet, here’s her girlfriend being heartbroken over her old crush appearing somewhat more available than to her than she thought she was. Dina does not deserve to have a partner broken over a never-was-an-ex.
Dina will be fine, she understands that her girlfriend has emotions
way to kill the mood Becky /s
This is the most frustrating discourse going on every day in these comments.
Overwhelmingly, the so-called paladins who are still disappointed by the lack of consequences wanted consequences for the cheating itself, not as in this case, for Joyce being bi. When we’re not satisfied by things like this, we’re accused of wanted worse consequences, rather than consequences for a different aspect of the arc.
This. It’s so frustrating and honestly feels so bad faith. I can’t tell if everyone’s trying to paint the arguments in this negative light on purpose or if they literally are incapable of understanding what a lot of us don’t like about this arc.
Yeah, I’m trying real hard not to assume bad faith, but it’s getting harder.
I know in the past I’ve had to put some things down to just irreconcilable differences. Things in people’s viewpoints we just couldn’t get around. This doesn’t really feel like that. Or it’s just too removed from the key underlying axiom that I can’t see the difference.
At this point, I have a little list of posters whose actions have led me to believe that their entire ACTUAL perspective is “My perfect little Joyce and Dorothy Ship has SAILED and it shall be perfect forever, and I must smack down any and all opposition to that ship (even as mild as “maybe the other characters should care about their hurtful actions) in whatever way works best in the moment.”
Ignoring them has really made the whole place much more tolerable.
Yes im happy. I literally said on Patreon yesterday that these were the consequences I wanted, people being sad
That’s a very funny alt-text gag
man…
Don’t trust being the problem.
title of next storyline: “I’m The Problem, It’s Me”
Aw jeez yep
Ouch
Stayed up till midnight for *this*?!
(Not sure what I was expecting.)
West coast best coast
West coast best coast
East coast yeast coast
Because WE RISE!!
central timezone for the win! best of both sides with better weather!
Alt text I think orientation isn’t the problem.
Wow, that alt text sure is one hell of a callback.
Came here to say this! Honestly I find the callback pretty damn funny.
Could some kind person please provide a link / comic # / context for the alt text callback? I’m drawing a blank.
It’s from this one back when Becky first came out to Joyce
Wow, an alt text callback to an alt text! Very glad you linked this
And click ahead a few comics, and you see a memory of Becky’s and her saying “I definitely…DEFINITELY…would have locked that door.”
It’s callbacks all the way down.
Thanks! I remembered this alt text but the wiki doesn’t link to it.
Maybe try not being her sister figure, next time.
Maybe they can do it again, but this time Jocelyne can come out earlier, so Joyce won’t need to collect other sisters.
Maybe try not constantly needling Joyce and teasing her to try and get a rise out of her, because she’s attracted to people who make her feel safe, actually, not goofy prankster clowns who play to the audience at her expense.
Dina and Becky work because Dina is, ironically, the ultimate straight man.
Ah, good. Now I don’t need to scroll to the bottom to comment this haha
I’ll add that this is also kinda equivalent to complaining about being “friend-zoned”, which I don’t *really* fault someone college age for. Especially if they’re not a man, to be frank.
Aww Becky D:
Just remember, you have a rad dino girl
Putting it bluntly, these are not feelings that Dina can fix
Thankfully, dina might be able to look at this unbiasedly enough to not be hurt by beckys reaction. Though im sure dina also assumed this was always a factor in beckys feelings.
dina is confirmed to be aware of beckys longing for joyce, i think its is in one of their conversations about how dina and becky express affation on ddesire differently
Let’s just hope they’re not suicidal feelings.
The “not be anywhere” part is worrying.
Worrying and, perhaps, foreshadowing?
So the poor girl has lost her mom, then went through all the craziness with her dad, who then went on to die. Meanwhile, she was rejected by her life-long crush for reasons that, while crushing, wasn’t really anything to do with her or who she is.
Except now, she found out that, no, that wasn’t the real reason why she was rejected. Turns out, there really were no insurmountable obstacles to the relationship she’d been fantasizing about for years.
It really WAS all about her crush not being attracted to her.
I really hope Dina, or someone else who loves her and she trusts and respects, finds her and realizes that she’s not to be left on her own.
Honestly, if this foreshadowed Becky killing herself, I’d just drop the comic on the spot, because that would be irretrievably terrible to read. Even an attempt would just suck.
Eh I don’t think Willis will have a character straight up kill themselves in the comic, I could see a failed suicide attempt as a plot point but I don’t think he’d kill off a major character via suicide
She’s not gonna but we’ve gotten at least one instance of Becky feeling crushing guilt over even incidental suicidal ideation. So struggling with those thoughts – even if it’s not being all out suicidal – fits for her story
It very likely *does* have something to do with who Becky is. Look at who Joyce has been most attracted to over the course of the comic- she wants a stable presence in her life that gives her a feeling of safety. One of Becky’s favorite activities is riling Joyce up! She loves constantly poking at Joyce’s boundaries to see her reactions. Becky has never let Joyce relax around her enough for Joyce to get into a romantic headspace. Dina and Becky have romantic chemistry because Dina takes Becky’s antics at face value and engages with them rather than being rattled by them, but never tries to rattle Becky back or make her stop clowning- in fact Dina seems to take great satisfaction in being a stabilizing influence for Becky, and the agency she feels when Becky responds to her advances. Becky likes Joyce because Joyce is her favorite chew toy, but they’ve never had any romantic chemistry at all and Dina and Joyce are radically different people.
Plus, Joyce was the only AFAB kid in her family. Becky’s teasing was effectively sibling behaviour. So Joyce’s wanting for a sister may have made her brain classify Becky as a sibling
Plus Joyce might just not like the way Becky’s face looks
Joyce not being attracted to her IS an insurmountable obstacle to the relationship. It’s pretty much the most insurmountable obstacle of all.
Yeah. Just because you happen to be romantically or sexually attracted to some members of a particular sex doesn’t mean you can be romantically or sexually attracted to ALL members of a particular sex.
Which like, okay, Becky’s young, she’s younger than the boys in university who got upset/mad that I had never had any interest in dating them when I started dating a different boy, we all learned some good lessons that year about communication and not being entitled to attraction just because you have a crush… but wow this reaction from her is frustrating for me to read given my particular history. Very disproportional. Hope she’s going to be okay.
Judging from the preview panels, she’s going to get a bad haircut, but I really doubt she’s going to attempt suicide.
She tries to, but the razor slips, cuts off her hair and she goes, “wait, I look even RADDER now”.
I can see saying that. I have never been suicidal, but I have needed to ‘not be anywhere’ at times. And after not being anywhere for a while, I came back.
I misread it, at first, as “not be anymore” (with “be” meaning “exist), maybe because I’ve felt the same way at times. The actual text can be interpreted the same way, though, and my brain won’t let go of that possibility (because brains are foolish like that).
Hopefully your interpretation’s more accurate; I’ve had something like your version of “not be anywhere” too, when social things got to be too much.
Anyway, not planning to even glance at today’s strip again until we know Becky’s going to be ok.
It really brought me up short. I’ve used similar phrasing when wrestling with s* ideation.
If I heard a friend say it, I don’t know what I’d do.
This might not be the best strip to say it, but Becky is very beautiful here and I would happily run my fingers through her hair. She cannot see it about herself right now but she is so lovable and if she can find Dina and be with her for a while she might feel better.
Hope you get the cartoon gf of your dreams someday
Considering Becky’s words in Panel 3, gotta point out the title of the next chapter is “I’m the Problem, It’s Me.”
(hi)
Honestly, Becky (for not being desired by Joyce), Walky (for being dumped multiple times and twice within a week), and/or Joe (for Dorothy being open to poly, but not with him) could all be the focus with that title.
And then Willis will have made the focus of the chapter be about Charlie or Sierra for some reason.
It should be Joyce honestly. She’s the connecting element and she’s been a bog monster since the washing machine.
I mean. We have a name and precedent for when Joyce turns off her self censorship filters and just goes with what feels good.
This is her Anti-Joyce persona, and she’s been in charge since about the washing machine, yes.
No, not like an… alter, I think the term is? but like, a form of her regular personality that we’ve seen before, both in this series and in It’s Walky.
Introduced here, IIRC:
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2023/comic/book-13/03-joementum/hussification/
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2023/comic/book-13/03-joementum/antijoyce/
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2023/comic/book-13/03-joementum/tarp/
(Links are something I still can do.)
Introduced here, IIRC:
dumbingofage.com/2023/comic/book-13/03-joementum/hussification
dumbingofage.com/2023/comic/book-13/03-joementum/antijoyce
dumbingofage.com/2023/comic/book-13/03-joementum/tarp
dumbingofage.com/2023/comic/book-13/03-joementum/backdown
(Links are something I can do, still. Links are safe.)
Nah, that’s just the DoA callback to the concept. It’s a Walkyverse thing where Joyce was split in two and one of them was sexually aggressive and “evil”.
There’s commentary on the storyline from then-present Willis about it, but even at the time it’s clear Willis had mixed feelings about representing sexuality as “evil” that was disconnected from Joyce. She begs her friends to believe that “Anti-Joyce” is nothing like her and has nothing to do with her actual feelings, and they don’t completely believe her.
Anyway, I don’t think Willis would invoke the reference at this point in any kind of “and so Joyce Became Evil” way.
Oh, I agree. By the end of It’s Walky, Anti-Joyce had become an acknowledged part of Joyce’s psyche, and made an appearance functioning not unlike the classic “shoulder angel/devil” along with fully Scandalized Joyce and … like, Emotionally Balanced Joyce.
A lot of the characters in DoA seem to be reflecting emotional arcs they went through in the Walkyverse, just slower and with different circumstances, so different results.
Let’s be fair. She’s been a bog monster since Sarah sicced her on Jacob
(also uh, the server is about 15 minutes late now. I assume it’s related to the various recent lag issues)
But at least the site is loading relatively fine today
Ayup.
Tonight was a slog just trying to get the page to load.
Eh, the server clock was out of sync long before the site became unusably slow. Probably unrelated
The server time has always drifted, but the loading problems are new.
Oh, crap. This ain’t good.
Yep, I called it.
WILLIS, YOU MONSTER!
Go sit at your art table RIGHT NOW and draw an apology to Becky. RIGHT THIS MINUTE, MISTER!
Becky gets TWO dinosaur girlfriends from now on. Maybe three.
Yesssss. An entire harem of dinosaur girlfriends! (they’re all clones of Dina, but the clothes they wear represent different dinos.)
This is a great idea. We can just give the clones a lysine dependency to make sure they don’t get out of hand.
You are the reincarnation of TJ Bass and I claim my five pounds.
(Except that makes you 13 years old at most.)
(He was an SF author who wrote “The Godwhale” with genetic superwarriors who were controlled by needing special 14 amino acid bread.)
…No, there is a different science fiction story involving lysine.
Most people are more familiar with the movie. I don’t recall, was that ever mentioned in the movie or only the novel?
It is mentioned by Samuel L Jackson’s character at one point, but dismissed as a practical option as by that point the dinosaurs are already out and eating people, so they don’t exactly have time to wait around for them to starve.
@Doctor_Who And I don’t think the movie had the bit at the end the book did about the dinosaurs reaching the mainland and going after lysine rich crops. I think it was that bit in the book that made it clear that measure to keep them from spreading failed that made their lysine dependancy stick in my mind.
Oh, 3oranges, you’re forgetting just one thing. The lysine contingency doesn’t work. Why? Because… because “life finds a way”. There’s nothing in the ‘verse that can contain a Dina!
The lysine contingency didn’t work because when they reached the mainland they started devouring lysine rich crops. That was the stinger for the first novel.
It’s also a massive research fail. No vertebrate can make lysine in the first place.
Three. And one will be in a SUIT.
Which dino should be in the suit? I suggest one of the bipedal ones like an allosaurus.
And they smoke weed!
And while you’re at it, draw Sonic the Hedgehog praying in front of a giant cross! That’ll help!
Also Pregnant.
Yeah, a giant pregnant cross!
and now you know where all those little crosses come from.
That’s right. Sonic the Hedgehog fucks crosses until they give birth to smaller crosses. It’s basic biology.
Thank you for explaining this. I have always been too embarrassed to ask.
Source???
Matthew 26:41
Gospel of Peter 10:39-42
YIKES
Also, the swerve from the feelings of the comic to reading the alt-text got me
Becky, Joyce saved your life. She punched your dad for you. She loves you so much I promise. Just because it’s not romantic doesn’t make it any less.
Yup… It’s really sad that she’s so hyper focused on her romantic desires that she can’t see the love she has received.
great alt-text callback. also, heartbreaking alt-text callback. damn you, willis, etc.
So say we all.
So say we all.
REAL fun juicy drama. It would be hilarious and awful for Joyce & Dotty to have terrible guilt-ridden sex right now. Just really emotionally torn up and going at it to try to distract themselves from it. Just really lean into the socially destructive yuri that we keep getting, and make their first time together weird as possible. The only way this can get better is if they’re both feeling so guilty that they’re both thinking about Becky the whole time.
Joyce accidentally Pavlov trains herself into being attracted to Becky by thinking about her during her first time with Dorothy
I…don’t like the way she phrased that.
At all.
Yeah.
Reminder that Becky has been struggling with … certain thoughts lately.
Wondering just how much of her mother’s daughter she is.
Same, I noticed the phrasing too. Now I doubt Willis would even make Becky attempt suicide, I do think seeing experience suicidal ideation and then and perhaps be further emotionally distressed because of feeling guilty about having the ideation.
*I do think we might see her experience a bought of
I put absolutely nothing past Willis, at this point.
Yeah, that sounds SUPER suicidal.Don’t like that phrasing at all
Yeah, the only reason I’m not extremely fucking angry about this is that I’m trusting Willis not to have “obvious sapphic pairing triggers attempted suicide” being the actual outcome of this, what with Kill Your Gays being such a well known and hideously destructive trope for so fucking long.
Still unhappy about it, though.
Long, long ago, even before the strip the alt-text is a callback to, Willis said no deaths of main characters, because the whole story would be derailed by the grief for IRL years.
Then he overlooked the fact that Mike had become a main character… but, come on, there’s no doubt that Becky is one.
Willis didn’t overlook Mike being a main character. Willis very much intentionally broke his rule. It’s unlikely to be broken again… but it’s not completely impossible, either
Good time for Dorothy to pay Becky back for the other night, by handing her off to someone in a better position to help.
Yes, that phrasing is disturbing. It’s not like she has a family history of mental issues or anything, or severe trauma in the recent past.
Same. Man that stopped me.
well that sure killed the horny mood
That remains to be seen. Joyce and Dorothy have been ignoring everybody elses feelings all day, why stop now?
Yeah, they sure are monsters! I bet they laugh at Becky as they bone down in the next strip.
What makes her better then Walky?
Her coping mechanisms, her history of severe damage and instability.
She has a girlfriend.
Joyce actually likes her.
Okay but that would actually be really fucking funny unironically
Goddamn site formatting this is ekant to be a reply to “Yeah, they sure are monsters! I bet they laugh at Becky as they bone down in the next strip.”
Bongoplush: It is. You just have to follow the indentation, while not being able to see it, because it has scrolled off the top of the screen….
Are you all on phones?
It’s pretty bad on desktop too.
Unironically, I bet they forget about Becky and lose themselves in each other’s eyes before they actually do anything about Becky’s feelings.
Because that’s literally how they’ve reacted to EVERY OTHER EVENT TODAY.
Becky leaves the room and Joyce’s lack of object permanence kicks in.
Dorothy: We should go after her.
Joyce: Who?
Becky hasn’t been okay but I really wish this wasn’t the point it was hitting her all at once
Willis’ MO seems to be hitting characters with everything all at once.
Everything everywhere all at once.
In my experience, life tends to be like this at points – and young adults especially don’t have the experience and coping mechanisms for it, while also going through so much change it’s most likely to hit them.
It’s what makes a comic about young adults worth writing about and reading about, even when you’re older, imo. It reminds me of growth events, emotions and life lessons I’m old enough to have started to forget.
Dina. Dina where are you. Dina we need you. Dina. Please come help us, Dina. Dina. Dina please.
quick, somebody claim that dinosaurs were all cold-blooded lizards
Uh red flag guys? Red flag?
We need to follow her without being noticed
DINA WE NEED DINA
Text Dina, get her ready to intercept (AND CLEAN UP THE MESS THESE TWO HAVE MADE). Following and sending regular updates wouldn’t be a bad idea but let’s be honest, Dina’s probably already quietly waiting behind one of the doors just down the hall.
Joyce and Dorothy didn’t make this mess. They aren’t responsible for Becky’s feelings, as Becky herself acknowledges here.
Ouch. My heart.
Rain doesn’t fall when, where or how you want It. You can only observe predict and prepare… But it might still not come when you need it.
But then what does it mean needing little or not rain at all? Empty fields? Gatherer? Raider? Can you?
So. She took it well, but….. also didn’t? Like I’ve given up on trying to figure out if this is character growth or Becky doubling down. Because it’s just sad as fuck, and this is probably where I stop reading the strip for a month or so just to save myself the stress.
I think it’s a third option and unfortunately I do think that third option is Becky having a complete shutdown. Taking a reading break might be for the best in case the topics ahead with Becky might touch on the serious side.
btw i love so much that Willis’ writing can do that to me as a person.
On the surface level, this is actually a very mature response, all things considered. It’s what’s below the surface that I’m worried about.
The suicidal ideation is not below the surface. She said that part outloud.
I felt so bad for Becky (and mildly annoyed with Dorothy for once) and then the alt text made me cackle so now I just feel conflicted lol.
The only reason to be annoyed at Dorothy in this strip is that she’s apologising to Becky.
No one take the author notes seriously on this strip, please.
Becky, Diana, and Joe polycue is nigh!
Make Joyce Straight Again
Some people absolutely are taking it literally. ( Sigh)
I felt so bad for Becky (and mildly annoyed with Dorothy for once) and then the alt text made me cackle because of the callback so now I just feel conflicted lol.
I can’t imagine how torn up Becky is, and I hope Becky can realize she’s got an awesome girlfriend already, and that just because Joyce isn’t /in love/ with Becky doesn’t mean she doesn’t love Becky.
Also, this certainly killed the make out mood; I’ll have to patiently wait for the inevitable Dorothy/Joyce sexy times.
Dina’s reaction is gonna be SUPER interesting.
I’m hoping Dina isn’t too hurt when she finds out why Becky is upset, but that’s probably asking a lot.
I could see a Joe/Becky low self-worth “mirror” interaction and outcome of learning not to define themselves by Joyce’s choices. I look forwad to 36 months time when the plot threads reach the point when that might potentially happen!
God Dorothy and Joyce are real good at digging holes
Maybe, but not in this case.
I still hate all 3 of them in this moment. Dorothy apologizing is somDorothy and such a shit thing to do coming off Joyce’s shameless over-glazing of their precious love story. And then just Becky. Like maybe Joyce ain’t worth it? She’s kinda proving she was never worth your romantic love. Terrible queers all around. None of them living their lives to the fullest at all. Do better ladies. Be better.
This one just fells kind of weird.
This reply feels kinda weird too.
Becky: Toxic in her reaction and feelings, emotionally cheating on her girlfriend, refusing to be happy for her best friend
Dorothy and Joyce: Did way worse things by cheating on their partners, don’t owe Becky any explanation, or need her approval, and were honest with Becky while also being shamed into feeling bad about their feelings
You: All three of them suck in these scene?
I don’t get it.
There’s a major lack of awareness on both ends. I suppose that is to be expected considering they’re all young. Becky is as you mentioned holding toxic emotions of possessiveness over Joyce she needs to get over. But Dorothy also being ashamed and apologizing for her love isn’t something to get behind either. That’s just an extra insult especially following Joyce’s imaginative interpretation of events. This of course all sprouting from a brief dabble in cheating as many a paladin have mentioned. This moment has honestly brought out the worst qualities of these three.
Dorothy’s deeply ingrained shame at any happiness that might come from her being selfish or at the expense of someone else
Joyce’s complete lack of empathy or awareness when in the heat of a romantic high
Becky’s possessive nature masking her self worth issues
So yeah. I think all three come off pretty terrible here. Might even be a little intentional because good drama happens when everyone gets hurt and there is no bad guy.
You don’t have to agree with my opinion though.
I actually didn’t get it and appreciate the clarification. While I think Dorothy’s issues aren’t terrible in the same vein as Becky’s, there’s definitely a weird element to her attitude that I can appreciate as being inappropriate, even if I don’t really have a firm grasp on what it is myself. It read to me as more self-hatred from her, which is less toxic toward others, even if it’s still not healthy?
Ironically I think this is the one instance where Joyce isn’t actually being a sociopath so lacking in empathy its painful to watch. Her being honest about her feelings seems fine here because I’m still of the opinion that Becky isn’t really owed any grace for this situation. But that’s definitely a subjective read. I can also see some people arguing that, as her best friend, Joyce should definitely be kinder, so that’s totally a valid interpretation. I do think it’s ironic I feel that way because her being so empathetic is one of my favorite parts about her character and she really has completely forgone that empathy that made her so kind throughout the rest of this arc, so it also tracks thematically that that’s the intended read. I actually commented on her lack of empathy on another strip so I can draw a straight line for it being the same mistake caused by the same feelings. Again, I just think it’s just not comparable to Becky, subjectively, but I do acknowledge that’s a personal take.
I just REALLY hate Becky’s attitude here. It’s the third gay person in the cast cheating on their partner and yeah, it’s in character, but I was really hoping she’d surprise me in a lot less red flagging way than Joe did with his poly talk. (Seriously hope that was legit talk and not him being desperate and full of self hate still, lying to himself about being okay with it.)
i said above but dina is fully aware of beckys feelings for joyce, and has made comments to confirm such, so dina has been aware of and seemingly ok with these feelings, and therefor to be pedantic i don’t know if it can really be called cheating at that point. honestly the most toxic part of becky here is her rigid people sexualities are set form day one shit.
her lack of self esteem and worth are not toxic just worrying and red flaggy
They’re toxic in the sense that it’s causing harm to others, and Dina has expressed knowledge of that, but also discomfort about that? So this emotional cheating is definitely going to hurt Dina.
i will need reference to dina expressing concerns regarding becky’s feelings towards joyce, as my admittedly shit memory it was aconversation that ended with understanding and exceptance. i just dont have the archival searching skills
“emotional cheating” is my enemy. Feeling an emotion isn’t cheating, emotions are never emotionally good or bad, and the idea that you owe your partner a certain set of feelings (impossible!) or you’re bad is… Honestly it’s not the only reason that I’m dubious ethically monogamous relationships can exist, but the idea is a big one?
*never morally good or bad
To be clear beck is *not* handling this well, I just think the idea that a feeling can be cheating is… A little bit horrifying.
never sure what is meant by ethically monogamous, but if it is referring to a long lasting monogamous relationship in which both partners are fulfilled and healthy and happy they are less rare than everyone thinks in my experience, they just seem to require to people willing to never stop communicating.
Emotional cheating doesn’t mean feeling a certain way, it means becoming inappropriately close with someone you’re attracted to.
Emotional cheating doesn’t mean ‘having feelings’. It means indulging in those feelings to such an extent with someone, when you are in a committed relationship with someone else, that you hurt, neglect or otherwise break trust with your current partner. Becky still hanging on to this torch and indulging in it this heavily is emotionally cheating.
Also saying that monogamy can’t ethically exist is hilariously bigoted? Like, let people love how they want, just like with poly stuff?
No no, I want to hear more about how ethical monogamy can’t exist. This sounds hilarious.
“If you only love one, you’re cheating on all others.”
– Don Juan. In the opera. Which ends with him going to hell.
Don Juan in hell, a perpetual party for everyone to have fun in. *Le sad sigh*
everyday i am introduced to pinhole peeks into so many interesting worlds
It’s a wild take but I’m gonna play the devil’s advocate.
Monogamy is inherently unethical because it definitionally requires one person to provide the entirety of another person’s emotional needs. All sexual and romantic desires can only come from one source, which leads to a conundrum: either the giver is forced to give too much, or the recipient is forced to live with getting too little. As long as there’s any mismatch in desire, at least one party and probably both are being forced to live in a way where their needs are not fully met. “Emotional cheating” can be viewed as a method of balancing the scales and letting each person get the emotional fulfillment they need without draining their monogamous partner for it.
(While I don’t agree with this take, there is a kernel of truth I based it on: a lot of monogamous relationships put too much reliance on their partners to fill every need instead of finding fulfillment in other, non-romantic relationships. Taken to an extreme, this phenomenon could be spun out into “monogamy is inherently abusive”)
damn i am at aloss of how to say it properly but i agree with your observation in brackets, and just want to add that this is the issue with that definition of a monogamous relationship, as it does not preclude the ability to be araoused by external factors, just that the results of said arousal are then shared with the monogamous partner. as i have heard the joke many times “it doesnt matter where the get fueled up as long as it is driven into my garage”
Just for the sake of continuing the conversation, I’ll just point out the two biggest holes in that argument:
– Monogamy does not require that a person’s partner fulfills all of their emotional needs. It doesn’t even require that they fulfill all of their romantic needs. All my friends and family take part in fulfilling my emotional needs, and a healthy portion of my romantic needs are fulfilled by vicariously enjoying the romances of other people (both in real life and in fiction).
– Most people’s emotional, romantic, and sexual needs aren’t a single precise fixed point, from which any deviation is a pronounced loss. I’m happy having sex with my partner every day (if a little sore afterward). I’m also happy if we have sex a couple times a week. One doesn’t make me clearly happier than the other. What’s important for our relationship is finding ways of being where we are both happy. If someone wants to argue that the need for communication and compromise makes monogamy unethical, then polyamory – which famously requires tons of both – must be even less ethical.
well said!
The devil doesn’t have a very good argument here. “The way our society expects our spouses to be everything to us when that simply isn’t possible is really not healthy for anyone” is true, but doesn’t support any of that. Not least because there are loads of people whose sexual and romantic needs /can/ reasonably be filled by one person, but very few people, if any, whose full gamut of close social needs can reasonably be filled by one person.
If anything, I’d say there’s more of an “it takes a village” argument here than a poly vs mono one. If we had more community structure, we might not feel the same need to get all our emotional support from the one person who fills out romantic and sexual needs.
I think it’s a poor turn of phrase.
But there is SOMETHING here. Toxic Entitlement above your partner
( WHOA just realized it’s exactly a mirror to Dorothy feelings the other day when Joyce went out with Joe to have sex.
Oh! That explains Dorothy acting guilty and self blamy here. It’s compounded because Dorothy knew then Becky would feel the same way. )
Anyways I don’t have a different word. I groked what you meant. I just think it’s an oddly nebulous concept.
But what’s happening here is not nebulous is the chewy core.
We know Dina could feel othered or unloved or insecure by Becky response.
I’m not sure a person who doesn’t somehow completely and utterly banish years worth of romantic interest in someone on entering a relationship with someone else is automatically doing any form of cheating. It’s not like there’s a button someone can press to stop caring.
If I was Becky in this situation I’d be like “don’t touch me bongo”
Okay so that is a very worrying thing for Becky to say and once these girls finally stop digging this particular hole, Dina is going to MURDER them.
But wanting violence is bad! Bad And Wrong! Badong! Guilt for you!
but yeah no, I am hoping we see “Dino going after Newman” levels of tiny adorable rage.
I hope not. She has no justifiable reason to do so, and that would make me dislike her.
I think Dina’s going to be more hurt by Becky than anything else, given the emotional cheating and toxic possessiveness of a girl that told her she wasn’t interested several months ago?
reread the comics at the biginning of the dinabecky relationship, dina knows of beckys felling for joyce, and has been the whole time, thus it isnt cheating of anykind, it has been a discussed part of the relationship.
and if you’ve never experienced one sided longing/attraction, to the point that you still are processing the rejection 4 short ass months later that involve your dad kidnapping you at gun point and then dying. can you really be that hard on her for not having gotten over it?
When she’s in a committed relationship with someone else who has expressed worries about those feelings? Yes, yes I can.
dina has not “expressed concern for those feelings” she has acknoledged them and they discussed them. there is a big difference there.
Unless she shrugs this off, I don’t see a realistic emotional way forward w/out them breaking up.
Its a rebound relationship. Maybe it should have broken up over break. And she’s never felt her heartbreak over Joyce. I was surprised it lasted this long.
( I also expected more narratively from Walky and Amber, Joe and Joyce, and Danny x Ethan so what do I know?
It seems like setting up characters with great chemistry bores the author )
Joyce and Becky would make an awful couple. I can’t even figure out why they are friend compatible. So maybe they are end game.
again that assumes that dina is not okay with beckys feeling for joyce, which we have evidence in the strips that dina is ok with them
The second part makes no sense, and Dina doesn’t do things that make no sense.
Becky…sometimes they’re not into you.
Right? When people don’t fall in love with you, it doesn’t necessarily mean anything about you at all.
Ah well, Smarting Of Age.
That’s it. That’s the whole story. All the *gestures at above comments* are just drama-llama-ing.
….WOOPS
becky obvs has some hangups about sexual/romantic orientation whcih should not be made joyce’s problem but omg joyce did unknowingly shoot herself in the foot by saying that bit about “the first moment [she] saw [dorothy]” . if i had the same hangups as becky i would probably go the same “joyce was always gay (and im the problem)” route that shes going lol. anyways i hope these ladies can work things out waghh.!!!
What are you waiting for?
Go after her!
She’s not gay she’s disastersexual
Run after her.
Or better yet, run to go get Dina so that Becky has someone to not be alone with who isn’t these two. Honestly, maybe split up.
Yes… Run to Dina, so Joyce can see that Amber is stabbed. Let’s spice up that guilt.
i mean, while that might work depending on the situation/person considering she left i imagine she’d want some alone time or at least like a 10 min wait or so
Yeah, no. Ten minutes is more than long enough for her to actually act on what she’s feeling right now. Ten minutes is access to the roof, a razor blade, a bottle of pills. They can not afford to give her ten minutes.
Damn ✨ The title for this strip…
Becky 🙁 The sexuality being fluid thing, the childhood crush on Joyce, and now this are combining into the worst possible smoothie in that head of hers
I’m worried when I see a lot of callbacks in a cartoon
Me yesterday (a fool): I hope Becky doesn’t get angry at Joyce and Dorothy, that would be pretty shitty of her and I don’t want their relationship to blow up.
Me today: NO WAIT ACTUALLY ANGER WOULD BE FAR PREFERABLE TO THIS PLEASE GET ANGRY INSTEAD PLEASE DON’T CRY
Joyce isn’t gay though. Be upset that Joyce wasn’t into you, but don’t be bi-phobic
Is it biphobia? “Gay” is often used as an umbrella term for general queerness. Bisexual would be covered, no?
I definitely hear bisexual people say they’re in a “gay relationship”
^ This. Some of us say “I’m so gay (for ___)” a lot, usually in a lighthearted way. Others prefer not to use it for themselves. It probably won’t be a big deal, unless you’re asked to stop and don’t.
Yeah I’m a bi frequently guilty of saying “God i’m gay.” and similar shit. its fairly normal in my circles. Others differ. I’m as tired of bi-erasure as the next guy but (at the risk of adding gasoline to a fire) people using ‘gay’ as a catch-all in and of itself doesn’t raise any flags for me.
yes, the important thing is stopping if someone tells you they don’t like that applied to them.
A lot of bifolk do *not* like being put in the “Gay/Straight” pile. Some just shorthand it because people are… People and it’s easier then explaining it over and over again.
Becky’s got issues with the very idea of bisexuality, so it makes sense she’d say it that way.
Copying over part of a comment from 2 days ago: I genuinely don’t know why you think “got issues with the very idea of bisexuality”. This has never been true. A lot of people thought so (including Joyce), but I don’t know why people are stuck on “Becky is biphobic because she’s a very loud/outspoken lesbian”
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2021/comic/book-12/02-ill-leave-you-a-phantom/notsoanonymous/
And maybe it’s just because I’ve seen people say this specific thing before (for example literally 2 days ago lol) , or because people (including today!) really love making up things about Becky to then have negative opinions about, but it’s incredibly annoying to me. Becky literally just does not suck as much as certain people seem to want her to.
Anyways I think gay is fine as an umbrella term.
As a bi person to be clear. I like it, even. Fair if people don’t but there’s no consensus and I just don’t see this as a biphobia moment or whatever. She doesn’t know how Joyce identifies anyways!
Becky’s not bi phobic. I didn’t say that.
I said she has issues with bisexuality.
Her reaction to fluid sexuality, and that it’s possible for your sexual orientation to change with time put her into vapor lock.
Her issues stem from her (untrue) fear that she caused all of this to happen because of her lesbianism. And if *that* is fluid, if there is a chance she could be bi… Then she blew up her entire world for no reason.
For Becky, Joyce HAS to be gay from the start, because if she wasn’t, then Becky’s life exploded for nothing.
As for the term, eh. I’ve never really been happy with any of the ones the community has picked out, barring like.. Quiltbag.
Becky might or might not foolishly think otherwise cuz the grass does sometimes look greener, but her dad would not have been any more accepting of her if she’d come out to him as bi instead of gay.
Like, statically, people do not actually treat bisexuality as “less gay”. They treat it as more transgressive if anything. We have worse statistics on being abused, being homeless, being assaulted…. it’s not Gay Lite and it’s not easier. The only way Becky might not have lost her father is if she sexuality-fluid’d her way all the way to “straight” and stayed there.
I think that’s what Ghola’s reading of Becky is getting at:
Becky thinks that if only she’d been bisexual, she could have just locked herself in the closet her entire life. Pretended to be straight, instead of inadvertently upending everything she’d ever known. (Not how being bi works obviously, but Becky is a mess right now.)
Joyce suddenly coming out throws Becky into a tailspin because in her mind, it can only mean two possible things:
A. If sexual orientation is immutable, then Joyce was bi from conception and still wasn’t attracted to Becky, but Becky had no choice in being a lesbian (and by proxy the last 6 months weren’t her fault)
B. If sexual orientation is fluid, Joyce still didn’t choose to be attracted to Becky, and Becky could have chosen to be straight passing (so by proxy, the last 6 months are her fault)
Becky has chosen to cling to option A. for what’s left of her sanity.
Still falls under the heading of “Becky might THINK it would be easier because the grass always looks greener, but no”, because she literally always had the option to spend the rest of her life in the closet.
Spending the rest of your life pretending to be a straight single lady isn’t harder than spending the rest of your life pretending to be a straight married lady, on the off chance that you manage to luck into falling in love with a man your homophobic fundie Christian dad would approve of.
The idea that that second thing is less of a closet than the first is just… wrong. They are both shitty.
Oppression Olympics suck, and when we play them, we all lose.
Hm, without getting into the Oppression Olympics of it, frankly I can see how a fair few people might find it easier to be closeted bi than closeted gay — after all, if you’re closeted bi you have at least a CHANCE of having a fulfilling family and love life.
Obviously not valid if one’s ace, or if one can’t find a decent opposite gender partner, or if one’s trans. Just as obviously, trying to compare oppression is a fool’s errand.
But it does seem like “closeted, chance of happy family” might be easier for some than “closeted, no real chance of open romance”.
Again, statistics do not bear it out. We are more depressed, more abused, more self-harming, etc, than gay or lesbian people.
What it tends to result in is feeling like you’re a pretender wherever you go: you’re not really straight and you get to listen to homophobia and biphobia being spewed directly in your face by people who respect you to agree with it, and you don’t even get the solidarity of sharing community with other queer folks. Partly because you’re closeted in this example, but also because lots of “queer” communities are also biphobic, and especially shitty about bi people who are currently in “straight-passing” relationships.
It’s not every community that’s like that obviously, but it’s enough.
Statistically it is not easier. It’s worse in a lot of ways.
*expect you to agree
Oh, the closet what-if is a terrible idea, I know. I’m bi. That just was what Ghola meant about Becky having issues with any possibility she herself could ever be bi. It’s really about Becky doing mental gymnastics to convince herself that there was nothing she could have done differently. She’s not wishing for greener grass, she’s trying to keep this convoluted house of cards she’s built in her head (to give herself permission to be a lesbian without victim blaming herself for Toedad) from collapsing.
You said she had issues with the very idea of bisexuality, and that just is not true. Because she’s well aware people can be attracted to multiple genders. What she has an issue with is the idea of herself being attracted to men (exclusively or not, but there just isn’t a world where Becky is not into women). I am having trouble to think of any time where she’s also applied this to /other/ people though (unless asking “are you sure you haven’t always been bi?” to Jocelyn counts, but that came right after she conceptualized sexuality being able to change at all), which is why I disagree with you. At best you can call this internalized biphobia, but I genuinely don’t think it’s useful to talk about it like that, because the root of those issues clearly somewhere else.
I will apologize for coming in so hot with my comment. A lot of comments are really intent on reading Becky in what often feels like bad faith & it frankly gets to me, but I don’t think you’re one of those, even if I disagree with you. I think I’ll leave the comment section behind for today! Have a good one
Becky did indeed have “issues with the very idea of bisexuality” back in the fall semester — in that she was too sheltered to realize bisexuality was a thing. In book 5 she said “Aw, c’mon. You can’t like boys AND girls. Is there even a WORD for that?” Of course, Becky took gender studies class and has learned a lot in the past few months. But old ideas die hard.
She KNOWS bi people.
Joyce had a lot more trouble with the idea of Ruth dating a boy than Becky did.
Like, her second reaction was “huh. That’s sure not ME but apparently some people are bi”.
As the previous commenters said though, Becky’s issue really is with any theoretical possibilities that she herself could ever be attracted to a man. She’s victim blaming herself for Toedad, and her maladaptive coping strategy is convincing herself that she has no agency in being a lesbian, so what happened isn’t her fault. (Longer explanation in replies above.) So, the idea that Joyce could have changed would undermine the convoluted logic Becky’s been using, and Becky’s been relying on that to give herself permission to exist.
And she could also literally just be wrong? She hasn’t been privy to any of the details about Joe, and coercive heteronormativity is a heck of a thing. Joyce also just claimed to have been in love with Dorothy since they first met, which makes a “gay but in deep denial” reading even more reasonable from the info Becky has.
It’s not biphobic to think you’ve been told your best friend is gay rather than bi when all she said was “I’ve been in love with this woman since before I ever dated a single boy”.
By the way, completely unrelated but I did respond to your comment from last strip. It was already after midnight but I just woke up from a nap.
Oh I usually check back on threads periodically for like the next two days at least 🙂
Replied! Sorry, it’s lengthy orz
And now I am gonna log off metaphorically, other comments (not yours!) have me a bit emotional and I don’t wanna snap at people.
Have a good night!
I read it. I don’t have much else to say so I’ll leave it at that. Either way yeah I still can’t say I don’t feel like I’m meant to take Joyce’s dialogue at face value.
/salute!
Mostly I think she’s not being biphobic or even really wrong. She hasn’t processed this beyond “Joyce has been into girls all along. It’s just me she’s not into”.
She can be forgiven for using the word while she’s barely coping with her world imploding.
Thinking about this a bit more, I think she’s serious about thinking Joyce is lesbian. It goes back to right after their kiss.
Your boy stuff was all talk. It’s so obvious in hindsight.
Like I said: it would be reasonable for her to think Joyce is a lesbian based on the information she has available. It’s not bi erasure or biphobia to just be wrong, heh.
On deeper thought, I don’t know.
I don’t know how Becky means it
I don’t know Joyces sexuality. Maybe Joyce doesn’t either.
Becky could be assuming an absolute. Or could be unhappy Joyce wasn’t Into her
I’m more familiar with biphobic gay people insisting that bi people aren’t allowed to call themselves gay/lesbian than bi people not wanting to be called that, so comment threads like this one always throw me for a loop.
…huh. I’m old enough to remember when “gay” meant “male same-sex attraction”, which is why L, G and B are separate letters in “LGBT(Q+)”; even calling lesbians gay is a rather recent development.
watching the evolution has been interesting
How old is that?
Because my memories have gay having a more generic usage than it usually does today, while also being specifically male homosexual, depending on context. Closer to how queer is sometimes used now.
Speaking of connotations though, “same-sex attraction” has ugly ones, being most commonly used by conservative Christian groups and nowadays TERFs.
Really. I’m kind of old And I remember it other way around.
I didn’t think Gay referred to men until long after the “only call me lesbian” movements
Ellen came out as Gay. No one said that’s a man’s term.
I thought L and G were different letters due to perceived sexism and felt marginalization and erasure of women and feminism in Gay Rights Movement.
I could be wrong tho. “Gay marriage cases” is a common term even though most legal cases are lesbians .
I mean, fair point, but a) Becky has pretty consistently used “gay” in its broader colloquial sense thus far, and b) she is clearly not exactly thinking particularly clearly here.
there was also an implied attraction? to sal despite her and walky being siblings but there is also discourse about ‘queer’ being a slur (understandable if lgbt calling them that but if i heard a cis straight man in a southern accent say that, i would not take that in good faith)
but yeah sometimes it sucks more instead of “They’re straight” versus “They’re sapphic/gay but they still chose someone else”
Queer was the defacto slur used around me all through my closeted era, so I have hated that word with a passion. But still stuck using it as the catch all, so you just chew past it like a bad steak.
Bring Back Bent.
It also means talent, knack, skill, orientation and character
I got called “lesbo” and “lesbian” in the nastiest tones all through my childhood and teens and I still flinch when people say it out loud sometimes. And then gay was used so widely as a slur that the fuckin Disney Channel did adds trying to talk teens in the 2000s out of using it as a synonym for stupid / bad / shitty.
All our words are used as slurs without exception. Because our identities are treated as horrible things.
I’m not gonna surrender any of these words to “slur discourse” without a fight.
*ads
I often talk about this but it’s frustrating how much easier it is to ruin something than it is to reclaim something. The Manji is just fucking doomed to never be seen normally again.
Yeah.
I think a lot of commenters are being way too hard on Becky. “If you can be X for them, why couldn’t you have been X for me” is not particularly out there as far as reactions to rejection or being broken up with go. Especially when you’re this young and it was such a long-time crush AND you were also rejected by your own father in a different way AND all of the related upheaval you’ve gone through AND underlying self esteem issues. YEs, even if you now have a great new girlfriend.
Maybe she’ll make this everyone else’s problem to an unreasonable degree, but IMHO she hasn’t done so yet, so for now I say give the orphan a friggin’ break.
Sorry I didn’t make ot clearer that I am team “Becky is allowed to be upset”. It just rubbed me the wrong way as a bi girl that gay was the term used. “Into girls” would’ve been so much better.
I actually didn’t mean to post this as a response to you haha! I’m with you.
Becky, please, please don’t do anything drastic.
God I hope she goes straight to Dina or Dorothy at the very least alerts Ruth or Leslie or someone Becky trusts that, hey, Becky said something very alarming and I’m not the right person to help right now.
“I need to not be anywhere” is a way too familiar thought for comfort.
Becky, please, don’t be sad! Remember, you’re already dating perfection, you are the winner of the girlfriend contest! Life can never be truly bleak when you have a Dina by your side!
Right? Joyce has vastly downgraded, and Becky has already vastly upgraded.
I hope Bex gets sorted out…
BUT!
She needs to realize that she didn’t have fucking “dibs”.
…Pretty sure this strip was, in fact, Becky realizing precisely that?
In the most toxic way possible, yes.
“Pit you against anything else in my life, you will win every time” – Joyce, 5 months ago
‘Risked her life to save Becky from her father.’ – Joyce several months ago as well.
I don’t think Joyce needs to prove how much she cares about Becky. I think Becky needs to get over herself.
That’s one way to describe having low self-esteem, sure.
It’s a really shitty way, in particular. Seems to pop up with increasing frequency the closer someone gets to suicidal thoughts, but nobody ever wants to hear that
Becky affects unreasonably high self esteem in order to overcompensate for her understandably low self esteem. She’s prickly and volatile specifically because maintaining such a high opinion of one’s self in order to avoid processing deep trauma is neither healthy nor sustainable, so every time reality reminds Becky she’s not the greatest thing since marmalade she starts to have a meltdown because she does almost all of her coping by telling herself she’s super amazing and totally unstoppable instead of having, you know, human humility. But hey, that’s the kind of wound up to snapping nerve it takes to post on high visible social media that you’re going to go turn yourself in to your entire friend circle’s kidnappers who happen to include your gun-toting felonious homophobic father who wants to lock you away from the world forever.
Becky is a live grenade.
Not sure what you’re replying to about my reply? They made a comment quoting Joyce, who would still probably stand by that statement, and I pointed out that Joyce put Becky’s well being over her own safety and possibly her own life.
Becky is in a shitty place and needs a lot of help, but that doesn’t excuse shitty behavior. She’s rejected offers of help from more mature adults in her life several times already as well, which means that she is actively avoiding improving her situation. That makes her current state toxic. Even if that toxicity is born of legitimate trauma, it’s still hurting her friends to ambush this, guilt them into answers on her time, and then act sad about it.
Ironically, out of the three people this couple hurt, Becky is the one least valid in her hurt. Just cause she’s in love with Joyce doesn’t mean Joyce should deny a part of herself, ignore it, tip toe around Becky because of it, or have to be super careful with how she reveals that part of it.
And when I say ‘least valid’, I mean that those emotions are ones that will cause her and others harm, and thus aren’t healthy ones to indulge in, focus on or encourage, not that the very act of having them is wrong. Feelings happen whether you want them or not. How you act based on them, handle them and work with them is what makes someone mature or immature.
And with ALL that said, Becky is a child, who gets a lot of leeway, and I’m sure if she came back a week from now after seeking the help she’s been avoiding, having begun working on her thoughts, and clearly apologized for shaming her best friend and someone else whose also done a LOT for her for this situation, they’d forgive her… Well, they would if they themselves weren’t children who didn’t really understand how what Becky’s doing here is emotionally unfair and toxic. Which they are and they don’t, because that’s how being a child goes.
Ultimately, there is a lot here that I could, and have, said to clarify my position on this matter, but if someone’s just going to put a single line of effort to critique these children in an possibly dumb and shallow way I’m not going to put that much effort into correcting them.
Yeah, when I’m talking about a near-suicidal orphan with CPTSD and survivor’s guilt overtaking her whole brain it makes me feel cool and big to whip out judgmental terms too. Fucking walk it off, you toxic brat.
@Arillius – Very good analysis. I think you’re right on the money.
Pretty sure this has nothing to do with Becky wanting Joyce to prove her love to her and everything to do with realizing that the excuse of not being into women is not the reason there were no romantic feelings between them, like they both thought.
I don’t think that kind of statement applies to romance
Damn some of you folks can be brutal.
Some people just want to watch
the world burnthe ladies kiss with no blowback.(Alternate comment/joke was “some people just want
to watch the world burnthe next Slipshine”)Why are you people all so fucking horrible to this poor lesbian
The woman is suicidal, can she not get a fucking break for goddamn once
[citation needed]
“i need to….not be anywhere”
IS A HUGE FUCKING RED FLAG
like i could be a bystander in the hallway hear that and ask if she needs help. no need to be even aware of who she is or her history
She was in a cult. She was kidnapped. Kidnapped a second Time. Her future lover watched helplessly. Attacked by police. She finally comes out, no praise or social support
Then there is Dorothy. Almost murdered. Saw a murder. Kidnapping. Just a ball of guilt and self loathing and denial.
I think everyone needs intensive therapy but Danny.
Danny needs therapy of a kind that comes in a little blue tablet and some spironolactone
Oh Man that is some, unexpected kink on main
You could ask Yotomoe to draw it.
Willis reshared that milking mommy post, an it’s too real.
It’s not a kink?? I’m a trans woman and I want Danny to come out as a trans woman. Really fucking gross that your first thought was that this was a kink thing.
That said Yoto draw transfem Danny and my heart is yours
Torn between a) remarking on what look worryingly like suicidal thoughts on Becky’s end, and b) praising what might be the single funniest call-back I have ever seen in a DoA alt-text.
Oof
Am sad for Becky, but also, FINALLY we can move forward with the other aspects of the storyline
yeah we’ll have to check in on amber, i imagine even if asher took her to a ‘real’ doctor it’d be hard to recover in bed without proper painkillers and such
Genuinely afraid Willis is about to kill Amber. This drama would be a good diversion.
She called Walky in your time of need, return the favor and call Dina.
Be awkward timing if for some reason dina wasn’t in the uni bc her parents were taking her out to dinner somewhere
Oh no baby, no! You’ve grown so much and come so far, don’t do what I think you’re gonna do ;_;
where is Dina???
imagine if shes on another adventure with ‘charlie’
Watching over Amber, last we saw.
Hopefully Becky isn’t gonna do anything too drastic, just spend some time away from those two for a while. Maybe she could go spend time with Dina?
hopefully it doesn’t cause too much of a rift considering sarah called it a ‘rebound’ and dina acknowledged that even tho it’s much more than that too
And then Joyce immediately goes back to trying to make out with Dorothy
Does Dorothy get to run out and laugh at Becky now, or are we waiting for Sunday?
Yeah, that tends to be the reason people don’t wanna date other people, girl.
Literally in Maryland, eh? Is it possible to figuratively be there? Like when people are in a good mood and say they’re in Heaven or the opposite for Hell?
Sadly, “literally” no long literally means literally.
Descriptive not prescriptive. Stupid linguistics. Stupid Normans. Stupid collaborator Anglo-Saxon barmaids.
Yesterday I learned that the serve-across bar, with serving staff on one side and customers on the other, was invented by Isambard Kingdom Brunel.
Except in this case literally does literally mean literally.
Sometimes people’s hearts are in Maryland.
Is that some sort of legal thing? Like corporations in Delaware?
Yea, there really isn’t much she can do, powerless
If I was her friend I would be contacting anyone with mental health experience and focusing on suicide prevention, cause this is a dangerous mindset to be in
This is an existential crisis of sorts so potentially very good if she can find her way through this
at the very least, contact ruth or leslie but idk if dorothy/joyce know that there’d be any suicidal thoughts in this situation
Anticipating the wrath/comfort of dina
Which do you think would come first, the wrath against Joyce and Dorothy, or the comforting of Becky?
Hopefully the comforting, because Becky really needs it and because the wrath would be completely unjustified.
That went way better than I thought. What she’s feeling isn’t betrayal, it’s self loathing, insecurities about how she isn’t enough, she wasn’t enough to save her mom, she wasn’t enough for Joyce’s affections, but she is enough for Dina, who is the only person that can really help her right now.
But in Joyce’s defense, Becky kinda put Joyce on the spot, not asking her how she felt, but assuming she felt the same way, and kinda putting Joyce’s in a corner, while Dorothy and Joyce had no idea how they felt and came down this road naturally.
That and Joyce has never seen Dorothy as her sister, where as Becky’s always been her sister emotionally.
I wouldn’t want to kiss my sibling either..
kinda wish Carla was here to take that last line seriously
(I am not saying that Joyce/Dorothy won’t, just that Carla definitely would)
So would Ruth. Probably Jennifer. Good odds on Sal since she tends to be perceptive like that.
That is not a good sentence to be hearing at this time given her family history.
The only way that could be worse is if she namedropped her mom.
ooooh the misery
nobody wants to be my enemyyyyy
“Joyce was always gay.”
Ummm… if she was gay she would’ve flat-out broken up with Joe, not give him a BJ AFTER her kiss with Dotty and certainly not non-confirm Dotty’s declaration that they both broke up with their boyfriends to be together.
But then again, Becky’s been really dragging her heels in opening her mind that people aren’t just gay or straight. Remember how panicked she was when she was told sexuality can change over time? (Though Joyce HAD to rub it in by whispering that she was in love with Dotty the moment she saw her in the last strip, further confirming her own mindset of the gay/straight binary.)
She kissed Dotty again after the BJ too. Dorothy has now gotten to third base with Joe via proxy.
By the transitive property.
Dorothy’s kissed the lips that kissed Joe….’s nether regions.
oh my god Becky does not have an issue with bisexuality. She doesn’t. If you wanna scroll up where I’m linking to a strip of her talking about it, you can do that. She does have an issue with sexuality /changing/, but that includes bisexuality! When someone goes “btw I’m bisexual now” she’d be like “what do you mean, NOW” & not “what do you mean, BISEXUAL” (this happened with Jocelyn).
What she specifically is worried about, is the possibility of /her/ sexuality changing & being attracted to men (exclusively or not). Which is an entirely separate issue from biphobia, or at the very least I don’t think it’s incredibly useful to talk about it that way, because the roots of that are likely with how much being a gay women is an identity to her that, after losing do much in her life (& her gayness playing a central part in that), is something she can hold onto.
also replying here, sorry for coming in hot! I stand by my point but generally think it’s more productive to stay nice instead of immediately combative. This is just a sore topic I guess, especially with people often reading Becky in what feels like bad faith.
you hit the nail on the head, thank you.
I’m fairly certain Becky doesn’t know Joyce gave Joe a blowjob after kissing Dorothy.
“Gay” can be used as an umbrella term that acts as shorthand for LGBT. That’s what Becky is doing here. She knows what bisexuality is.
Mostly I don’t think Becky is thinking very much about her word choice. She’s thinking “Joyce is into girls, but not me” and that came out as “gay”.
Yeah. And it’s not as if Joyce hasn’t used the word “gay” to describe herself anyway!
don’t get it twisted, people WILL find any excuse to be weird about Becky McIntyre. it’s a little incredible. bowing out early today you guys have fun
It truly has been a ride to read some of these, hasn’t it?
I’ll never not be surprised at how many people think another person being sad is a thing they’re doing at/to them.
Why is the female who had one parent commit suicide and the other reject her still dwelling on her friend’s rejection, when it would be far more rational to move past it and be supportive? I do not see any opportunities for calories or profit in her strange behavior, it’s almost like she is damaged in some way.
I didn’t bow out!! I didn’t bow out & unnecessarily annoyed even at people who didn’t really deserve that! I really need to listen to my first impulses more lol. Bye again
You can do it! I believe in you!
(Said while surrendering to my own compulsion to engage.)
If a little contrast helps: I was pretty neutral about Becky until literally this strip. This makes me like her a lot more.
THAT
COULD HAVE GONE BETTER
Could it have?
I think Becky’s last line could have been slightly fewer* alarming, yes.
*(I’ve decided to try out a thing where I intentionally say “fewer” when the correct word is “less”.)
They could be all agreeing to Joe’s polycule idea and forming a super harem, but they don’t got the guts to chase their dreams. They’ll never find the One Piece.
Are you implying the strawhats should form a polycule?
…I wouldn’t be against that actually.
I don’t think that’d work, poor Brook would have no BODY to be with!
YOHOHOHOHO!
That’s not true. I think plenty of people would want to BONE him.
YOHOHOHOHOHOHOHO!
Not really, no. The best that could have happened was Becky having this thinky thought shortly after she left their presence (if they had not overshared like the neurospicy dorks they are).
Also love that Becky has exactly zero concept of bisexuality
She knows what being bi is and she doesn’t have any problem with any part of it. She’s expressed insecurity around the idea of sexuality being fluid, which is different.
But Joyce just said “I’ve been in love with this woman since before I had ever dated even one boy,” so even if Becky isn’t just using it as an umbrella term, it would still be a pretty reasonable conclusion to draw from the information she’s been given.
Thanks you!
Becky isn’t being biphobic she’s emotionally devastated, she’s not Billie.
Becky has a hard time adjusting to change when it applies to herself and to Joyce. This is the only way it could have gone, especially after Leslie’s earlier conversation with her that involved
-her mother’s suicide
-reinforcing that sexuality can change at any moment
She is not in a good place, but fortunately I think Dina will be there to catch her at least a little.
Oh no… 🙁
Is the next strip Becky getting lots of hugs from Dina? Maybe some good advice from Leslie?
I’m worried Becky’s reaction here might make Dina feel like she’s a “consolation prize” (she absolutely is not) and make her feel insecure in their relationship
I seem to recall a strip in which Dina acknowledged that she was Becky’s rebound relationship, with a possible implication that it was unlikely to last long. By I can’t find it now.
I remember that exact same thing. and they’ve only been together a few months so far so… yeah that’s starting to look like a problem.
Aquí:
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/02-that-perfect-girl/riddles/
Thanks for finding that.
It’s a bit heart-breaky.
You are so welcome, Agemegos.
hey remember this
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/02-that-perfect-girl/thoughtless/
(i want to be clear i’m not even ragging on becky today i just stumbled on this strip and in context i thought it was funny)
honestly i could see leslie searching becky out right know having seen the paper, and being aware of everything around her
We need to check back in on Leslie. Hope she’s not in jail.
Kind of hope Robin got the police car ride she wanted though.
🙁
Dina is very understanding and kind but I kind of hope she voices her discomfit about Becky’s behaviour in the future. Your girlfriend being devastated her crush is dating another woman is not great.
I don’t think Becky being devastated is unrealistic but it’s not healthy, not for her relationship with Dina and especially not for herself. Of course, the length of time the comic takes place in makes the characters’ actions a LOT more understandable. Being barely an adult and having the person you love not love you in the exact way you love can feel like a stab in the heart and make you act ungrateful for all that they have done for you.
It’s clear that she never really got over Joyce, she just moved it over to “well Joyce isn’t gay, that’s the only thing keeping us apart.” So there will probably be a mourning process while she finally gets over her. Personally I hope that Dina will be supportive, but would be less tolerant of future jealousy.
On the flip side though, if you love somebody (like, truly deeply love them), there’s a part of you that will ALWAYS love them, no matter what. I think Becky does genuinely love Dina, but it’s not the same love that she gave to Joyce. And because Joyce didn’t actually do anything WRONG or something to destroy that love, that love will remain, even if it’s something Becky can never have.
Love isn’t always straightforward or neat. Sometimes, loving someone means having to be OK with the fact that part of your lover’s heart will always belong to someone else. :/
I so agree with you
In Becky’s defense, it’s only been four months in-universe since she was rejected by Joyce. I fell in love with my best female friend in college and it took EIGHT YEARS to get completely over her. So four months, especially with an 18 (19?) year old isn’t enough time to even get a quarter way over your first love, even if you have a hot girlfriend that you have sex with.
I really need to do a full comic re-read, because there’s callbacks now that are going way over my head, but I’m also terrified of the idea of reading a 15 year old daily comic’s backlog, and I still say that as someone who’s read QC in its entirety. Twice.
My last DOA reread took me a week or so? I’m scared to even TOUCH QC for a reread. It’s so long.
Maybe this will be enough of a cold shower moment for Joyce and Dorothy to stop eyefucking each other for like 2 minutes and get their affairs in order.
Or maybe they could just enjoy their new relationship for awhile and stop having to tend everyone else’s fucking feelings.
okay back from Demon Slayer Movie, what’d I —
oh
…
OH NO
Oh did that come out already? How was it.
Was as enthralling, beautifully animated, and as flashy, bloody and horrifying as expected
10/10
I don’t watch Demon Slayer, but some of my friends went to go see that movie tonight. Since that meant we didn’t have our weekly Fabula Ultima session, I decided to have some fun with them and toss “So, this is basically the Demon Slayer equivalent of Bio-Broly, right?” into the group chat like a hand grenade.
now THAT’S EVIL!!!!!!!!!!!
MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!
LMAO 🤣👏🏽
for reals tho, I’d go either way on account that I like to support 2D animation/anime in theaters whenever possible, hell it’s the only reason I’ll go to theaters at all these days lol
Not sure if this will finally have woken Joyce up out of her post-requiting euphoria, could use the girl who chased down a speeding car and broke her hand punching Becky’s dad, right about now.
Also, not to ruin the dramatic tension but there are a -lot- of preview panels of Becky with a different hairstyle slated to air over the coming year, so… Probably won’t die?
Obviously Becky goes to get a haircut and right after the haircut there’s a fatal hair cutting accident and thus the preview panels are all ghost!Becky lingering around much like Amber’s ghost!Mike, going “Oooh I’m still the biggest lesbian of all OoooOOOooOoOoh”
OKAY I HATE THIS IDEA BUT I FUCKING SNORTED LAUGHING. GodDAMMIT.
Dorothy: Joyce’s mine now Becky! I win you lose! Hahaha
Okay, this did make me laugh
now that would spark outrage in this here comment section.
Where’s the chaotic sapphic energy Dorothy used to charge back into the protest and hold up a sign to the cops when we need it, huh?
… but I’m just now realizing the hole in this plan. Neither Becky nor Dina have anyone to gloat to about taking the other away from.
Well, Dina did say the thought of defeating the Christian god was intoxicating, so she can probably gloat over Becky’s father’s grave at some point.
Heartless, but all I can think is “maybe she stops doing the unfunny frenemies bit now.”
Becky kind of dropped the bit the last time she and Dorothy saw each other and she saw Dotty was visibly upset. She told Dotty she could talk to her if she ever needed it, but Dotty declined the offer.
The ironic part of all of this is, when Becky confronted them, she got a straight answer.
First, I think you meant “honest”, not “straight”. 😉
Second, I’m in the camp that thinks Joyce is rewriting a lot of history to conform with the story she wants to believe. I don’t think she’s deliberately trying to deceive or mislead; right now, she sincerely believes/has convinced herself that she’s always loved Dorothy.
I don’t think she’s rewriting history so much as recontextualizing it. As pretty much everyone around her has noted, she’s had feelings for Dorothy right from the get-go – it’s just that her hyper-religious evangelical upbringing prevented her from recognizing it. Now that recent events have broken through that bit of her programming, she’s looking back and saying, “Oh, THAT’S what those feelings meant!”
As a trans woman, it’s a process that I’m rather familiar with.
How would “honest” be ironic?
Fuck, perfect avatar for that joke.
Dammit, this is exactly what I feared would happen. I expect an angry Dina to be hunting Joyce down within the hour.
Insufficiently pessimistic.
Becky’s still wishing she got with Joyce, so Willis is going to give us a HURT Dina instead.
That’s why she’s gonna go after Dorothy first for betraying her roommate like that. If she sees Becky’s still sad for wanting to be with Joyce, that’s when she goes after Joyce.
A very busy hour, to be sure.
I don’t see Dina confronting Joyce with a “How dare you not romantically love Becky” to go very well
That would make Dina an enormous asshole, so I’m hoping we don’t get that.
Becky is obviously having a lot of emotions about not being good enough for her childhood crush, which sucks for her, but props for recognizing logically that she didn’t have a claim to Joyce. She very clearly should not be alone right now, because emotions are irrational, but she’s also not taking those irrational emotions out on her friends. Good job, Becky!
Hopefully she went to snuggle with Dina
I’m REALLY hoping that’s what happens next, because the “Sorry, Mom,” comments not long ago combined with her saying, “I need to… not be anywhere,” have me REALLY worried about what she’s getting ready to do next…
and this is, ultimately, what dorothy was actually scared of. What joyce was scared of. That they’d hurt Becky. And she is! Thats how it goes sometimes. Shes doing her best with it!
its a hard one to handle.
Been there Becky. Been there.
If Dina is mad at Joyce for this, I’ll honestly roll my eyes. Like seriously, being mad at Joyce for……..being queer? What? Being queer is not something Joyce is DOING TO Becky.
Joyce and Dorothy are both concerned for Becky, and they didn’t want to hurt her. It’s unreasonable to expect them to handle the situation perfectly. They are not responsible for Becky feeling maybe a little extra hurt by Joyce being lovey dovey in front of her. They are not responsible for everything that lead Becky to feel this deeply hurt by the situation. They are great friends for caring even though this isn’t their fault.
I’m honestly a little annoyed that THIS is where all the emotional weight is going, and not into the guys who got cheated on. BUT ALSO I know they’ll be covered later. It’s not a “this comic is being written badly” complaint.
I wish I could take a break from reading updates for a week or two so I could binge read some strips.
The number of people wanting Dina to get mad at Joyce and/or Dorothy is strange to me. Like, “how dare you hurt the person I’m in a monogamous relationship with by being in a romantic relationship with a woman who is not her!” seems odd.
“BUT ALSO I know they’ll be covered later. It’s not a “this comic is being written badly” complaint.” is a caveat I think mentally adding on to most comments would defuse a lot of arguments.
I think at least some of them are only thinking “how dare you hurt the person I’m in a relationship with” and thinking (wrongly) that Dina’s dinosaur mode is bite first ask questions later, instead of “rationally assess the situation, gather more information as necessary/prudent, THEN commence biting as needed”.
Totally agreed. I’m hoping the Dina Willis gives is not the Dina that many commenters are expecting.
The most devastating punch for a girl in love
“Sorry, you’re not my type.”
unrelated to the cheating part of things but still part of it I guess, right now the collateral is;
– Walky coping in the most unhealthy way he’s ever done, eating his own bodyweight in Chicken Nuggets.
– Joe seemingly keeping on a strong face but looking devestated the moment Joyce had to step away.
– Sarah being angry at the both of them for resorting to cheating.
– Becky’s insecurities flaring up again in a major way.
And we got a preview of Danny who already assured Dot that being bi isn’t an excuse to cheat and that it only makes you a morally bankrupt human being.
Anyhow the consequences are consequencing and I cannot wait for monday morning.
(though apparently we’re approaching a timeskip which is pretty scary)
You mentioned Danny and now *I’m* sad, because I’m reminded we could have been watching Danny and Sal instead of this shitshow.
At this point I’m glad when couples I like don’t appear cuz that means nothing bad is happening to them.
Honestly still rolling my eyes at Sarah being upset about the cheating because she was very actively pushing Joyce to take Jacob from Radiah, so cheating is only bad when it’s to someone Sarah has just started to like.
Cmon now
Or maybe Sarah learned a lesson from all that and changed her mind.
She did. While it was happening. She told Joyce not to do it for her and Joyce just smiled.
@Reaver – Amen to that. She also tried to get Dorothy to get together with Joyce in order to break up Joyce and Joe all of a week ago.
That was Amber. Sarah was trying to get Joe to cheat on Joyce with the polycule or Rachel.
Astariel is right, have a look at this strip, it was after Sarah tried to get someone to take on Joe:
this comic here
Crossing my fingers as this is the first time I’ve used HTML in over a decade now.
Sarah also explicitely said she was wrong to do that
tho.
And even with the stuff with Jacob she pretty clearly understood she messed up and attempted to apologize for it
And there’s one of the sets of words I was worried we’d hear… “I need to… not be anywhere…” That does NOT speak to someone who is in their right state of mind – and we need a Ruth and/or Dina watching her STAT! Heck, even Jennifer would be a good pick at this point – we just need someone there keeping an eye on her and helping her work through this latest shock to her system so she doesn’t end up following in her mother’s footsteps.
Fortunately, this group has more than the usual number of folks who understand where Becky’s at right now. We just need to make sure that Becky gets to talk when them.
Crappy, crappy take.
I have a hard time condemning Becky here. She is having an emotional reaction to something that ultimately has nothing to do with her, but she also seems to recognize that those are her emotions that are her own issue to deal with, not anything that Joyce or Dorothy have wronged her. You’re allowed to have unfair feelings, you’re just not allowed to make that other people’s problem, and she… Well she’s TRYING not to. Unsuccessfully at the moment, but I think she’ll get there if you give her a little time to take a breath and work through it.
Or maybe instead of working through it she’ll just repress it along with all the other Stuff until she breaks down.
…I’m kind of surprised there’s no subversion, here. This is what the girls were dreading for a couple dozen strips, and… that’s that.
I was honestly expecting a twist, something like “I’ve been over Joyce for a while, Dina is much more my type it turns out.”
…kind of boring, honestly?
I know it wouldn’t make Becky feel any better, but it might be worth pointing out that, Joyce and Becky are like family. There’s nothing wrong with Becky, an Joyce does love her, its just not romantic in nature.
But only romantic/sexual connections count, remember. Everything nonromantic gets ‘only’ and ‘just’ descriptors. ONLY a friend. JUST a sister. Not equivalent in importance, ever.
Alt-text is excellent callback to an earlier time. 😀
Becky didn’t deserve this.
(Y’all mods finally gonna let me comment?)
I know people aren’t ultimately rational creatures, however much some of us try to be. And this is a very understandable situation, from both points of view- many people have felt similarly about many things. However, as sympathetic as I feel toward Becky, I can’t help being angry at her, too, for the way she just (inadvertently) insulted Dina. “There’s something wrong with me, no one who actually counts would be interested in me.” Going through something difficult is no excuse for forgetting about the people who care about you.
This arc has had Dorothy and Joyce acting in ways that dont seem to be very considerate of others feelings. Which isnt great but also isn’t an uheard of concept for college kids in love.
BUT if they respond here by going back to making out, or really doing anything other than following after her/calling Dina/ doing something to make sure Becky is not going to do something bad.
Then they cross the line from “oh just dumb kids in love” to “just self centered people”
CHASE HER YOU FOOLS!
Sadly, they couldn’t reach Becky in time.
But it’s okay. Spoilers for the latter strips, but she later returns as Becky the White.
“Fuck, you fools!”
Becky: “Well, at least I still got Dina.”
Dina: “No, Becky. I’m not yours.”
Becky: “Whuh?”
Dina: “I’m everyone’s! That is, if you pre-order the Dina with Triceratops Hoodie from Makeship.”
This is the best comment. 🏆
In weeks
Is she referring to her jealousy I hope?
Very tight writing in this one.
At first it seemed like Becky is making a very amateurish mistake with the ‘It’s all my fault’ response, but it has echos of the trauma of suicide survivors. The “I lost my loved one because I did/didn’t do something” response. She has shown this kind of trauma response before with Ruth & Billie, and speaking of her mother.
Yeah like, IIRC she’s voiced worries that she was part of why her mom died by suicide, which is……
Like, she’s done a good job burying the time capsule of “there is something inherently wrong with Becky McIntyre that makes her unworthy of love or desire in the normal way” and also the “did I kill my mom???” special prize in that time capsule, and now it was just all unearthed! By a big earthquake next door! Oops!!
I want to preface this by saying there’s some folks hereabouts who I think are a little unfair to Theocracy, and I disagree with that, but I appreciate you’re not trying to fucking step on the throat of Becky at her lowest point, where she’s trying with a broken heart to be as gracious as possible. Like there are definitely a lot of people with an appropriate response.
And there are people being funny and I love that, I’m funny too.
But some of y’all are out here being absolutely fucked up about poor Becky, fucking holy shit?? Fix your hearts, please.
Sorry this is just about apropos of nothing but do you mean theocracy as in religious rule? As in, a theocratic nation? Are you advocating for religious nationalism, if so why here, or does Theocracy mean something else in this context I’m unaware of?
I think it’s probably an autocorrect-ism
I believe “Theocracy” is the name Willis used to refer to the Joyce/Dorothy couple on his social media, fuck if I know why, but at least it fits in the sense I dislike both.
It’s the Joyce/Dorothy ship term, not the governmental form. Sorry that wasn’t clear.
“you’re never really my enemy”
liar
She’s not lying, she was always doing a bit to cover her insecurity about Joyce and Dotty’s relationship, and she’s acknowledging that she understands that Dotty didn’t do anything wrong. (to her, anyway.)
I feel bad for Dinah. She doesn’t deserve this, even if the relationship hasn’t been going on for long
The relationship has outlasted every other relationship in DoA history with Dina fully aware this was a problem. Dina has agency, she is not a baby, if Becky carrying a torch was a dealbreaker she, too, could have acted on it.
This isn’t to say one can’t feel bad for Dina or that she deserves collateral emotional damage, but like, Dina isn’t a victim of wrongdoing. Honestly, no one here is a victim of wrongdoing. It’s just very bad circumstances.
People really want someone in this situation to have done something, like, objectively wrong because then there’s someone to get mad at or blame. The alternative is sitting helplessly in this soup of bad vibes and hard emotions. But no one is doing anything wrong. Joyce and Dorothy are feeding each other’s romantic flights of fancy, which in turn is feeding Becky’s inferiority complex, and maybe they could have had more grace and tact, but they can hardly be blamed for being in love. Nor can Becky be blamed for letting all the insecurities and self-loathing she’s been pushing down and allowing to fester finally boil over into despondence and despair. She hasn’t wronged Dina by still having complicated feelings towards the first girl she ever loved and her own complex about being unworthy of love, and I find the implication that she has honestly pretty insulting.
It’s a bad situation. No one can be blamed. No one has wronged anyone else. But everyone’s miserable. And everyone has to sit in that for a bit until they can figure out what can be done about it.
Ambushing your ostensible best friend who just got outed as gay by the school newspaper so you can make her feel like the (obvious and known) feelings she had for her lover are an attack on you, personally?
That’s even more objectively wrong than “oops kissed my bestie while I was fucking a dood who knew I wanted to kiss my bestie but was repressing it”
None of you are willing to extend Becky even a tiny amount of grace in this situation and it’s genuinely saddening to see. This is not even remotely what Becky is doing here.
People really will just say whatever they project about the events in this comic, huh
I think the only thing I would call Becky to task for is not coming to grips with how she felt about Joyce once it became clear she and Dina were ride or die.
Like, Becky sees her relationship with Dina as something that has the very strong possibility to last. She’s contemplated marriage.
And the the whole time she was still carrying a torch for Joyce. I think her thought process probably went something like “I’ll always love Joyce more, but because she’s incompatible I’m going to dive in and be happy with Dina”- basically she never took the step of saying to herself “I should get over Joyce”
Now obviously she’s a traumatized teenager and it’s only been a few months, that’s *completely* forgivable, and it’s specifically me going looking for things to criticize Becky over (which a small petty part of me enjoys because Becky is not the sort of personality I enjoy spending much time with).
But if, say, Doeothy never existed and Joyce ended up tying the knot with Joe, for instance, Becky continuing to carry a torch would continue to be just that little bit unfair to Dina. She’d need to come to terms with it, and given how fast she and Dina moved, sooner would have been better than later.
Awww, Becks. It was never a problem with *you.* Joyce has just always seen you as family. *She always wanted a sister.* (And didn’t know she literally had one.) You weren’t an option for the same reason she never crushed on her siblings. You both love each other deeply in different ways.
Becky needs to remember that she already is in a relationship with Dina. This is incredibly unfair to her, treating Dina like she’s the fallback reserve.
Dina has fought and bled for Becky on several occasions. This thing with pining over your childhood friend that doesnt feel the same needs to stop. Dina desrves better, Becky herself also deserves better.
Everyone does.
Gotta give props to Willis. This plotline has been a bit polairizing, but damn has it gotten people to feel things over it. Thats quite a feat for a 15 year old comic about basically university drama. I don’t think I’ve ever been more invested in a comic for a long time.
It’s not actually about Dina at all, or even Joyce. It’s about Becky’s sense of self-worth.
She was hurt by Joyce’s rejection, but she seemed to comfort herself by convincing herself that it couldn’t be helped, Joyce was straight, she fell in love with a straight girl, nothing to be done. It wasn’t a rejection of *her*, really. And that’s a bubble she’s been sitting on top of ever since. So when Becky finds out Joyce *isn’t* totally straight, now she has to look for another reason why it wasn’t her, and she’s landed, in this moment on “I wasn’t good enough for her.”
Which is the wrong answer! It’s because Becks is *family* to Joyce. But if Becky recognizes that or not, it doesn’t feel like the truth to her yet.
She needs time, and she’ll come around. She just needs to not do anything rash in the short term.
😔
I’m scared for Becky. I wish Dina was around to support and console her.
You’re definitely not the only one. I’m hoping Dina will show up soon and help guide Becky through these emotions as only Dina can.
Becky should go feel her feelings and then feel her feelings of embarrassment for this incident.
Then bounce back and remember she has the best girlfriend.
It occurred to me that Becky was waiting in Joyce’s room alone? In the dark? Do these rooms not have locks? I cannot even imagine just leaving my door unlocked in a dorm hall. Especially while I am out. Then again I can’t imagine leaving the door ajar like half these people seem to do.
If I had to do it all over again, I’d — I’d definitely have locked the door.
I’m sorry, I feel for Becky, but I still feel worse for Walky and Joe. I don’t love a lot of people’s “it’s college, cheating is whatever” attitude.
Well, they both anticipated it to one degree or another.
Sure, but that doesn’t really change anything for me? Like, I don’t think cheating is the worst possible thing you could ever do and you should be stoned for it. I don’t think people are irredeemable. I personally believe in second chances after genuine apologies. And I don’t dislike Joyce and Dorothy now.
But I think cheating is crappy and I don’t appreciate a lot of people here going “well, it’s just college it doesn’t matter” or “it’s actually not cheating because they didn’t do xyz” or “girl love trumps all woohoo”….or “well the boys expected it so…”.
The only way I’d find this arc satisfying is if there were appropriate consequences (like at least one of the guys actually calling them out for hurting them). And not consequences to being gay, but consequences to the cheating. And I’d like to see not just guilt but a genuine self reflection/growth. But not every arc is written for me, you know? It be what it be.
On another note, I hope this doesn’t spell doom for Becky and Dina’s relationship! But hey… it IS college…
wakly could definaltely be more upset bout thing to a small extent (as he say it has been 4 days) but more cause it is his second timebeing dumped in 7 days, more than the specific acts of joyrothy.
joe not so much, he admits he is responsible for these events, he pushed dotty into joyces arms. he tells joyce he did so, he tells joyce he is ok with sharing her, and with not being her nukmber 1. that is not a person who will “get mad” about the act of kissing and snuggling. sure if joyce had tryed hide everything for while he might but it did not happen that way and it is 100% in character for him to not get mad about this situation, sure he has history of trauma due to cheating, but he created this situation himself, he is as responsible for them kissing at the protest as they are.
I’ll be the first to applaud Joe for how mature he’s been through his entire relationship with Joyce – but Joyce is the first person we’ve seen him actually open up to emotionally and not treat as a potential sexual conquest, and he is definitely rationalizing it falling through for him. I’m not sure that he should be getting angry about it or railing about it to the heavens – but saying that he shouldn’t feel hurt about it because he created the situation… Well, that’s not how I’ve observed emotions working. He probably does feel like he deserves this betrayal – but that’s not any more healthy for him than getting angry and blowing up at Joyce would be either.
He explicitly said after the dranks thing something like “with my history, I don’t get to be jealous”. That’s not a good sign for him not feeling hurt rather than repressing his hurt.
true there i had forgotten about that, and he does definately have some self esteem issues, but 99% of 18 year old sdo, my intention was the joe being less hurt than many are saying is my read based on his actions in the lead up and during his and joyces conversation this morning, i realy feel his hurtt is more over not getting to continue to discuss it with joyce at that moment more than anything
Careful with the ‘consequences’ word, some people think it means you’re calling for nothing less than them being tarred and feathered in the streets, and not, you know.
Some of their friends realistically being like ‘bruh. not cool?’
I anticipated 2025 to be a really shitty year due to *gestures at everything* and yet I’m still really really depressed ever day.
Even in a strip where the only characters appearing are three queer girls, it’s always gotta be about the boys, huh?
Well they did get cheated on
this feels like if someone got stabbed and while they’re bleeding out in the background if you ask if they’re okay you just slap their hands down like “it’s not about them right now”.
like yeah, peeps are gonna care about the two guys who were cheated on lol, idk why you gotta make it about them being guys in this scenario.
So do you get paid to be this aggressively, annoyingly uncharitable and bad faith or is it just for the love of the game?
You ever meet a living breathing person who’s a strawman?
If Joyce had said yes to you, you would have never got with Dina. Count your fucking blessings.
The issue isn’t actually that Joyce rejected her. It’s that Becky, in her mind, is not worthy of love.
She’s stuck in a moment (and can’t get out of it) right now so I’ll forgive her but I definitely think it does a disservice to how much love Dina has poured into her.
I get the same thing sometimes. When I get in my mopey “woe is me” moods people who care about me go “when you say all this shit about yourself you’re insulting one of my friends and I don’t like it”
I see what you did there, Yoto. I see you.
When you’re in a depressive spiral, when you are convinced beyond belief that you are not deserving of love, even the fact that there are people who love you is not convincing evidence otherwise.
It’s almost like depression and trauma are not rational and lead to awful self-image issues. *shocked pikachu face*
Though I’m still waiting to see how this scene plays out, I don’t know how to feel about the fact that Becky, who already had her heart broken by Joyce several books ago, has had plenty time to get over it and has an Awesome Girlfriend, is taking this worse than Joe or Walky. Am I the only one thinking this doesn’t make a lot of sense?
You’re not the only one, no.
I mean, if it weren’t for her reaction to the gender and sexual fluidity in Gender Studies class not too long ago, I’d agree with you – but that discussion does appear to have thrown her for a loop (to the point where Dina wore a full suit for a bit to try to help comfort her), and when you’re already in an emotionally unstable position, even something that should be minor like learning that your best friend and your roomie are “suddenly” gay for each other can swing way out of proportion.
She’s been in love with Joyce since they were little kids, and she’s had a couple of months to move on, and also as people keep pointing out Joyce is her last connection to like the entire world of her childhood.
Meanwhile Walky knew he was a rebound from the start and Joe directly confronted Dorothy about having feelings for Joyce before anything had happened, so neither of them were really surprised.
Like Walky and Joe are not done reacting by any means, Walky in particular has had an awful week (he’s been dumped TWICE), but it does make sense that Becky’s reaction would be bigger.
and I’m sure that part of her moving on from her feeling for Joyce were locked on the the notion that Joyce was straight, so of course she couldn’t feel that way about her. It’s easier to accept that someone doesn’t return your feelings, when you can pin it on something like sexuality, as the reason. aka it wasn’t anything wrong with Becky, she was just the wrong gender for Joyce to be interested.
Only now that whole basis of dealing with it is swiped away and she has to deal with the fact that Joyce IS interested in women, just not in her. Making it feel like Joyce wasn’t interested because of something wrong with Becky herself… (it’s naturally not that simple a thing, and none of it is Becky’s fault, but that won’t change how it feels to Becky, not right away at least)
The “connection to her childhood” point keeps being forgotten by some comments
So: Who would be the best person to be with Becky right now? Not even to necessarily talk to her; perhaps just to be there with her.
Dina might actually be a bit fraught right now; if she showed up immediately I can see it making Becky feel worse. I’d say Leslie, but the odds of her showing up right now aren’t very high. So: Joe.
I think Joe would be the best person for Becky to run into/be around right now.
i don’t think dina would be the worst as she would be able to reinforce to becky that she still loves her, and becky needs that. leslie is a greater possibility than you are saying as she is very aware of beckys issues and as long as she isnt in custody live very near by, and i can see her actively looking for becks. but i would actually posit ruth would be good for her, both from an understandign her mental state and being possibly able to help becks gain a better understanding of the fluid nature of sexuality
Granted, I’m rather biased since I very much AM the Dina in my group, but I think that Dina is the best to talk things over with her right now because she can walk Becky through things rationally while acting as a damper against Becky’s overwhelming emotions of the moment. That is something that Becky desperately needs right now – whether she recognizes it or not.
Ruth would be… interesting to see how things play out. On the one hand, she’s both been through a suicidal period and has watched someone very close to her go through one as well, so she’d absolutely know what to watch out for and how to handle it, but… She can also have her own emotional issues which could trigger Becky’s emotions to run even more out of control, which would end up being back for everyone involved.
Leslie would also be a good pick as Becky’s surrogate mother figure – but the fact that she’s teaching one of the classes that Becky’s taking could lead to some trouble – which she’d be well aware of and thus would try to avoid. Robin is in a similar boat – but her casual disregard for any sort of ethics or rules means she’s the more likely of the pair to actually show up. On the flip side, she’d probably just end up enabling any self destructive acts that Becky gets up to, and would likely end up doing more harm than good.
So, overall, I think that Dina is the best pick for her to talk things through with. And I’m really hoping that Dina shows up sooner rather than later to help get Becky grounded again.
A therapist.
In some circumstances, maybe. They kinda cost a lot of money and can’t always be trusted with whatever info you give them. A friend is probably a better fit for her, right now.
I think Becky needs someone who’s closer to her and knows her better than Joe. They’ve gotten to a point where they’re friendly, but they’re not really friends. I honestly think Dina would be the best person, but barring her, Leslie. Unfortunately, Leslie is pretty unlikely to show up in the dorms on a Sunday, and may be in jail.
Honestly I wish Jocelyne was still in town, as I imagine she’d do better at being a big sister for Becky right now, and has known both her and Joyce forever.
I don’t think there’s any reason to think Jocelyne has left town?
The protest was only yesterday and Jocelyne texted them a little while ago about seeing the paper.
As someone who has issues with jealousy and possessiveness, I wanted to say my piece. It really sucks knowing logically, your own feelings about being entitled to people is irrational and, for me, comes from a deep-seated insecurity of not being enough.
That no matter all the kindness and grace given to you, that there is something deeply wrong with you. It does feel like a disservice to everyone who loves you, and I get why people are worried about Dina. I wonder if that makes Becky feel worse, knowing she has a wonder girlfriend.
Having to wrestle with that while not blaming others, hell, also not blaming yourself, is not easy. Especially given Becky’s trauma.
I hope Becky can realize she is good enough and doesn’t need the external proof of Joyce’s romantic love to prove that.
(This is not me blaming Joyce and Dorothy. This is a tough situation to navigate.)
I’m in a similar boat Deckard. And i’m in an extremely complicated situation with my best friend who is also my ex girlfriend, and current roommate. We broke up a few years ago, stayed friends, then started talking about getting back together, but then she met someone new and things went bad for a bit.
We’re much better now though, but i still have feelings of how i’m not enough. I am dating two wonderful women now as well, sadly long distance, and i do feel bad sometimes that i can’t give them all my love because a lot of it is still with my friend, but they understand. Also i’ve been working on remembering that love isn’t finite, it’s a bottomless well you can draw from and give to as many people as you want, in many different ways.
Sending a virtual hug from over here.
Admittedly, I have gotten back with my ex and I get super insecure when she expresses interest in other people. And I want her to be able to explore and express the full expanse her love, but sometimes my brain forget that I’m also included. (We have discussed possible poly stuff, so the Joe stuff really hit me.)
I gotta remember I am made up of everyone’s love and that I have a lot of different love for others too.
I hope things continue to go well for you!
I have literally nothing else to say other than Dorothy is giving sad wet cat in that last panel right now.
also Beckyyyyyyyy augh, she needs good things to happen to her ASAP
I think that went well!
I know I’ll probably get some heat for this but it kinda bugs me how all this drama is happening and frankly it doesn’t even feel like there’s any real “love” between Joyce and Dorothy… Like all their “romantic” interactions seem to have no feeling behind it and they’re more like just two repressed balls of horny lust going after each other. They felt like they cared more about each other beforehand and now it’s more like they’re going “FUCK YOU WORLD WE DO WHAT WE WANT”
I feel similarly but also. They kind of ARE repressed balls of horny at the moment, so it’s not like it’s completely uncalled for.
I would argue more bi than gay, and it’s not that she didn’t find you attractive, you just got friend zoned, it happens ALL the time
Aaaaand /that/ is the sort of phrase that often means someone should probably not be left alone right now. Time to start texting friends and find someone who can go follow Becky.
Question is, are Joyce and/or Dorothy going to recognize it for what it is? I might be wrong on this, but I think Dina’s the only one of their friend group who has all the info needed to put the pieces together on this – and she’s been notably absent through so far in this particular part of the story…
Don’t panic. It has only been 2 seconds. Anything could happen. Even Becky disappearing from the comic and somebody else, also called Becky and looking exactly like her, joining the cast. But that’s not very likely. So, you know, the next umpty umph strips are all ready-written and there is nothing you can do. Sit back and enjoy the ride.
“Anything could happen in the next half…..” a minute!
“We’re just starting to figure out some complicated feelings that have been lingering for some time now, Becky. Even if I was always bisexual I never felt attracted to you because we were kids together and I see you as a sister because of that.”
That’s all you have to fucking say but no, let’s just ramble like idiots and make it worse.
And wow Becky, nice to see Dina doesn’t mean shit to you.
Completely unfair. Of course Dina means the world to Becky. But Becky is not thinking rationally right now. Loving Dina to the moon and back doesn’t change the lingering complicated feelings she had for Joyce, nor does it change the fact that she sees herself as unlovable on a fundamental level. Those kinds of feelings seize any evidence they can to strengthen themselves, and contradicting evidence, like having a wonderful girlfriend, can’t break through.
I’m getting genuinely annoyed at people saying Becky doesn’t care about or love Dina because of this. It’s such a shallow, boneless reading.
Seriously, this isn’t even really about Becky’s feelings for Joyce. This is about the blow to Becky’s self-esteem. I wasn’t sure if it would hit Becky this hard, but that all came down to whether she regarded Joyce’s reaction as “because she’s straight” or “because I’m her sister.” The latter is the real reason, but the former is the easiest answer and is apparently what she came down on.
Now she’s gotta face that it wasn’t about Joyce’s sexuality, so she has to find another explanation, and in the moment she’s landed on “I wasn’t good enough.”
Gonna be real, I feel like the poll needs an option for “both”.
Thinking about it, man, I hope Leslie and Robin got away from the protest okay, Becks is gonna need her moms.
https://www.tumblr.com/itswalky/794624429177143296/i-fully-understad-the-conflict-in-each-strips?source=share
This is not exaggeration i have seen those comments
Man I got over that 3 strips after she got the haircut.
NOW I’m like “Where the heck did you get a haircut for only $20?! share”
one more aaaannnnnnddddd…..
…. this makes 666 comments!!! >:D
I’ll see myself out LOL XD
And here I am feeling bad for Dina.
*sees alt-text*
…I need a metal pipe.
Becky’s very mature for this. It hurts real bad to know that it’s not a person’s sexuality keeping them from dating you, they’re just not attracted to you.